Floor receptacle

[Sifu]

In a commercial building, with concrete or tile floors (floors that will be mopped) is the floor considered a damp location needing GFCI protection?

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

I would call it a damp location. Maybe even wet, if the floor will be wet mopped.

Location, Damp. Locations protected from weather and not subject to saturation with water or other liquids but subject to moderate degrees of moisture. Examples of such locations include partially protected locations under canopies, marquees, roofed open porches, and like locations, and interior locations subject to moderate degrees of moisture, such as some basements, some barns, and some cold-storage warehouses.

Location, Dry. A location not normally subject to dampness or wetness. A location classified as dry may be temporarily subject to dampness or wetness, as in the case of a building under construction.

Location, Wet. Installations under ground or in concrete slabs or masonry in direct contact with the earth; in locations subject to saturation with water or other liquids, such as vehicle washing areas; and in unprotected locations exposed to weather.

 

[warmer]

In a commercial building, with concrete or tile floors (floors that will be mopped) is the floor considered a damp location needing GFCI protection?

If it were me I would consider it an area that can be saturated with water or other liquid and I would require GFCI protection as per 210.8(B).

Also, I don’t know what edition you’re working with but in case it helps:

The 2020 made a change to 210.8(B)(6) - it is now “Indoor damp and wet locations” instead of just wet.

I also saw that the 2023 has a new section 406.4(G) - see photos.

 

[ICE]

A raceway in this scenario is a wet location. One could assume that the box is also a wet location. Does that matter with the receptacle in a residential setting?? Might not matter anywhere.

 

[Sifu]

The oddity in 2023 NEC is #10. Not sure why a garage would be exempted in a showroom. If exempted there, why not if not elsewhere in a showroom? Frankly, I'm not even sure what this scenario would look like. The outlets I am questioning are not in the garage or service bay of a showroom, whatever that is, they are in the actual showroom with cars on display, and in a customer service area. I think #10 wouldn't apply to those since they aren't in a garage or similar area of the showroom, but the oddity makes me wonder.

 

[steveray]

If it were me I would consider it an area that can be saturated with water or other liquid and I would require GFCI protection as per 210.8(B).

Also, I don’t know what edition you’re working with but in case it helps:

The 2020 made a change to 210.8(B)(6) - it is now “Indoor damp and wet locations” instead of just wet.

I also saw that the 2023 has a new section 406.4(G) - see photos.

Kinda dumb that they do food courts, but not bars or nightclubs or restaurants…Shirley they will pick that up soon and save all of us…Guess I will call it a dining area and not a food court…

 

[BN4537]

In a commercial building, with concrete or tile floors (floors that will be mopped) is the floor considered a damp location needing GFCI protection?

No.

Location, Dry. (Dry Location) A location not normally subject to dampness or wetness. A location classified as dry may be temporarily subject to dampness or wetness, as in the case of a building under construction. (CMP-1)

The receptacle does need to be listed for floor installation. I believe that takes care of any hazard from mopping activities.

 

[jar546]

I find this to be a very interesting topic. Floor receptacles in commercial buildings are in a variety of finishes, mostly concrete with tile, vinyl, or carpet. I never saw a floor receptacle in a bathroom, although that does not mean one exists, nor did I ever see one in a commercial kitchen. They are mostly in offices or conference centers with carpeting and some large venues with just concrete. Concrete does not always mean the first floor, either, as y'all know.

I think it would be far-fetched to require GFCI in a commercial floor receptacle just because it was anything other than carpet.

Does anyone else have an opinion on this other than those above?

 

[BN4537]

A raceway in this scenario is a wet location. One could assume that the box is also a wet location.

That is true for slab-on-grade construction. I do not think that the receptacle needs to be GFCI even in this case because the box and conduit could be completely full of water without the GFCI tripping doing any good. You still would have energized screws and wiring in the water, even with the GFCI tripped, until it reached a point where it could trip an OCPD.

This logic, to me, indicates that only the parts of the fully installed receptacle that are "readily accessible" to users, need to be in a wet or damp location to require GFCI. If the box and conduit are a wet location, but the readily accessible parts are in a dry location, I would say that no GFCI protection is needed for that receptacle.

 

[Gregg Harris]

That is true for slab-on-grade construction. I do not think that the receptacle needs to be GFCI even in this case because the box and conduit could be completely full of water without the GFCI tripping doing any good. You still would have energized screws and wiring in the water, even with the GFCI tripped, until it reached a point where it could trip an OCPD.

This logic, to me, indicates that only the parts of the fully installed receptacle that are "readily accessible" to users, need to be in a wet or damp location to require GFCI. If the box and conduit are a wet location, but the readily accessible parts are in a dry location, I would say that no GFCI protection is needed for that receptacle.

I would agree