Frustrated fence contractor in business 25 years

[fatboy]

This discussion runs a bit on the ridiculous side. I would like to think that as code professionals, we all know what the code is after, a kids head, assumed at 4", will not fit in between. As stated, I doubt an infant has to much strength to force their heads though a marginal flexible opening. I have questioned cable openings in the past, but a solid opening........of some type of metal.......???????

 

[ICE]

Taking your roll the 4.00 inch sphere on a horizontal sample and it does not fall through test--what kind of sphere? Hollow Lithium would not weigh much at all , an Iron cannonball, solid Lead or solid depleted Uranium? You have no more quantified it than the 50# test based on the guard section. The previously quoted section in the IBC lets the building official set loads where the code does not specify. A force is needed to make it pass--with zero force the sphere will float beside the barrier and will no pass through 4 ft wide spacing.

..........

depleted uranium...now that's priceless!

What's Jake been up to lately?

Oh, and thanks for clearing that up for us fatboy......You're the best!

 

[MASSDRIVER]

This discussion runs a bit on the ridiculous side. I would like to think that as code professionals, we all know what the code is after, a kids head, assumed at 4", will not fit in between. As stated, I doubt an infant has to much strength to force their heads though a marginal flexible opening. I have questioned cable openings in the past, but a solid opening........of some type of metal.......???????

I get your point, but in my earlier post I was only half joking.

You can get a little arbitrary.

Takee the 50# per square foot of pressure. Where is that applied? Top of fence? At the bottom or middle? Leverage can make a huge difference.

How about the one square foot? Is that a 12" x 12" square. 1"x 12' long?

Or a 13 9/16" circle?

Sometimes a vague discription can work for or against you.

Brent.

 

[ICE]

You can get a little arbitrary.

Brent, you have to be careful about what you say to fatboy. He's probably already made a doctor's appointment.

 

[Francis Vineyard]

I think I see a code change coming. This can also be an issue with cable type guards and barbed wire fences where one stepping on as if to climb, opens it for the other to crawl through. How flexible are the pickets? Are we talking 5 pounds push on the ball or 500? Proposed new language305.2.2 Openings.

Openings in the barrier shall not allow passage of a 4 inch (102 mm) diameter sphere with not more than 50 pounds of force applied in any direction.

The 50 pounds being in consistent with the guard strength requirement in the IBC

1607.8.1.2 Intermediate rails.

Intermediate rails (all those except the handrail), balusters and panel fillers shall be designed to resist a concentrated load of 50 pounds (0.22 kN) in accordance with Section 4.5.1 of ASCE 7.

RB224–07/08

AG105.2; IBC 3109.4.1.1, 3109.3

Proponent: Bruce Dodge, Building Official City of Grand Haven, MI, representing himself

Openings in the barrier shall not allow passage of a 4-inch-diameter (102 mm) sphere. Where balusters or

individual components are used to create the barrier, the individual components shall not allow the passage of a

4 inch (102 mm) sphere except when a force greater than 50 pounds (0.22 kN) is applied to the sphere in any

direction.

Reason: (PART I and PART II) With fencing being made of plastic which can be very strong in one direction and weak in the other I have found

some fencings that can be spread with little effort allowing a four inch sphere or larger to go through with little or no effort. I do not find any

requirements for testing or the strength of components of fences. Section 1607.7.1.2 for guardrails require the12 inch square horizontal test showing

that the components will withstand the side pressure of 50 pounds.

What good is a fence if children can squeezes through? Therefore, I’m proposing a change to require that the fences / components of the fence be

test to show that it will take a minimum of 50 pound pressure to spread them apart to allow a 4 inch sphere to pass through. An inspector,

manufacture, or contractor can do a test very easily by getting a 4-inch sphere and a fish scale and pulling the 4 inch sphere through the railing

when an inspector thinks that it will not meet the 50 pound test.

I have inspected fences where a 4-inch sphere will come through the balusters with less than 10 pounds of pressure. Next time you see a

plastic fence try putting your knee thought the fences and see how much pressure it takes. Some I have tried are very strong but others will allow it

with very little pressure. I had one where you could separate them and have a 6-inch opening. The manufacture had to get aluminum extruded to fit

the interior of the plastic baluster and installed in each vertical baluster in order to get so the balusters would not flex to allow a 4-inch sphere to go

through.

Source: Proposed Changes

DISAPPROVED

Source: Final Results

 

[mjesse]

Good find Francis.

 

[SCBO1]

Brent,

I heard if you play a "Steely Dan record" backwards you get "Reelin in the Years" and your old lady comes back for her lava Lamp!

pc1

 

[SCBO1]

Don't forget to take your 4-3/8" and 6" sphere to inspect the stairs!.

Styrofoam, go figure!

While as well throw the Stanley away, I've been doing it all wrong, must be a moron.

 

[MASSDRIVER]

Brent,I heard if you play a "Steely Dan record" backwards you get "Reelin in the Years" and your old lady comes back for her lava Lamp!

pc1

Marks been playing that sumbitch backward for 10 years and he's still down 2 lava lamps.

Brent

 

[ameliasolis]

RE: FENCE POOL CODE INTERPRETATIONS – 4” SPHERE

TREASURE COAST, FLORIDA

A county inspector has failed an aluminum pool fence with 3 7/8” spacing between pickets. The fence is a commercial grade, 6’ high with (3) horizontals. (2) at the top and (1) at the bottom with ¾” pickets.

The code he is calling us out on is that the 4” sphere can be pushed (forced) through. The code reads “openings in barrier shall not allow passage of a 4” diameter sphere”.

I have installed thousands of fences over the last 25 years in business and have never had this issue.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated on Everett Fence Company.

Thank you.

I'm starting to look for fencing companies that will build a fence out at our new place. I'll be out there this summer hopefully to walk the property with them.

Aside from cost and options, what questions should I ask them? I'm afraid this is going to be expensive, so it needs to get done right the first time. I want to feel sure of the company and the fence they build.

 

[walker.t]

Aside from cost and options, what questions should I ask them? I'm afraid this is going to be expensive, so it needs to get done right the first time. I want to feel sure of the company and the fence they build.

Because this sounds especially important to you I’d try to ask around and get referrals instead of just calling some names you find when you do a search online.

If I couldn’t find referrals I’d consider how long the company has been in business, have they done fences similar to what I want, and to find out what their warranty is for defective work.

There’s a fence company where I live, they attach a small aluminum plate with their name on it to the fences they have installed. I’d like to think that they’re doing pretty decent work if they’ll put their name on it for everyone to see - maybe some fence companies in your area do the same thing.