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Grey Box Finish

Where some one builds the shell of a building, stubs in the utilities, leaves a portion of the floor un-poured for future plumbing, and as tenant spaces are leased they complete just that space.
 
Gotcha!

Certificate of completion for the shell (no occupancy permitted).

Individual plan reviews and permits for the tenant improvements, with Certificates of Occupancy issued to each upon completion.
 
After Planning approves the zoning and site plan, we issue one building permit for the building & infrastructure, then individual permits for each tenant space build-out.
 
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gb,

The "grey box finish" in this AHJ, in addition to what the others

have stated, would include an architectural review board approval

...a planning commission approval and the elected officials

approval.....Here, they want to know what the Grey Box "finished

product" is going to look like........A lot of variables are addressed

here before a the project is actually permitted!.......Things like

aesthetics, ...sidewalks, ...landscaping, ...color schemes, ...utility

locations [ i.e. - above grade or below grade electrical power ],

...signage, ...customer, as well as, emergency resources access to

the site and other.

FWIW, around these parts, these type projects are referred

to as "vanilla box" projects.....Plain, ...no frills, ...unfinished!

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We call them white box, as they typically are sheetrocked at demising walls. Same as permit guy and others.
 
fatboy said:
We call them white box, as they typically are sheetrocked at demising walls. Same as permit guy and others.
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We have always allowed a no frill white box; where things are finished to the absolute minimum, such as just the rough in and all the drywall taped. The grey box will be a bit new, where they will only have to finish the shell with open walls and floors, sewer; water stubbed 5' into building, and minimum heat and power. We never issued or had on the books the ability to issue occupancy certs, and now we can so grey box will work. We think.
 
gbhammer said:
We have always allowed a no frill white box; where things are finished to the absolute minimum, such as just the rough in and all the drywall taped. The grey box will be a bit new, where they will only have to finish the shell with open walls and floors, sewer; water stubbed 5' into building, and minimum heat and power.....
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I've always called that a "cold dark box." Very common around here.
 
fatboy said:
We call them white box, as they typically are sheetrocked at demising walls. Same as permit guy and others.
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White box is different because the tenant build out need not include MEP - though it can. Basically, white box, means that a the space could be occupied more or less as is, though, most tenants will modify the configuration at least somewhat.
 
brudgers said:
White box is different because the tenant build out need not include MEP - though it can. Basically, white box, means that a the space could be occupied more or less as is, though, most tenants will modify the configuration at least somewhat.
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thats how we see a white box
 
permitguy said:
Gotcha!Certificate of completion for the shell (no occupancy permitted).

Individual plan reviews and permits for the tenant improvements, with Certificates of Occupancy issued to each upon completion.
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same as permit guy. in addition we allow both types of permits to occur simultaneously with CO for the tenant finish dependent upon the completion of the shell (grey box) permit. We see this a lot in strip malls and out door malls.
 
Papio Bldg Dept said:
same as permit guy. in addition we allow both types of permits to occur simultaneously with CO for the tenant finish dependent upon the completion of the shell (grey box) permit. We see this a lot in strip malls and out door malls.
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I could see allowing them to complete at the same time.
 
Haven't really called them anything that I can recall.... However we issue a CO for the building and then each lease space will require a tennant finish out and that will include a CO for that tennant.
 
Not trying to be argumentative, but how can you issue a CO for the shell, when there is no established occupancy? That's why we, like others have stated, issue a Certificate of Completion for the shell, then a CO for tenant finishes.
 
Argumentative is okay.. I'm not offended. Besides it's a dicussion.

We don't actually issue a CO... I guess I wasn't really thinking. We just give a building final and when the space is finished with whomever whatever we will then issue a CO for that.
 
here they have a "core and shell" CO for the well, core and shell of a building.. the predominate occupancy is stated (usually B or R-2), and they develop the floors/tenants separately. The core and shell means all basic life safety is in place.
 
What gets complicated, when there is a separate tenant finish, that starts as soon as possible after the shell is up, then wants a CO before the shell is not entirely complete. They don't like it when you tell them sorry, your space may be done, but the building isn't. Talk to the GC.
 
fatboy said:
What gets complicated, when there is a separate tenant finish, that starts as soon as possible after the shell is up, then wants a CO before the shell is not entirely complete. They don't like it when you tell them sorry, your space may be done, but the building isn't. Talk to the GC.
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That is always one of my comments when we have simultaneous tenant finish permits and the shell is still active at issuance. I haven't found saying 'no CO for you' to be complicated. The only exceptions we make are for escrowed landscaping/sidewalks and other similar cold-weather issues, and in those cases we issue a Temp CO with a 6 month expiration. Then I jingle a chain and padlock and say 'bah humbug.'
 
Thanks for the responses. We are going to start allowing grey boxes, and we intend to handle it pretty much like most of you have described.
 
Same here, we always make it a red-line comment, and will do escrow/bonding for non-building issues. But inevitably, comes down to final inspections on the tenant finish, and GC hasn't finished sidewalks, landings, guards/handrails, then we point to the red-lines and say......sorry, get-r-done.........
 
Related to this old thread, at what point is the tenant buildout an alteration to an existing building vs. new construction? If you submit both at the same time sure, new construction. What if it's been a month, 2, 3, years?
 
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