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help understanding exterior stair requirements

juglvr

Registered User
Joined
May 11, 2021
Messages
22
Location
SE Pa
I've been trying to find the needed info for a set of steps to the exterior of my house - unfortunately the more I've researched, the more unclear I've become. Eventually, I came across this forum - hopefully I can get some help here.
I own a single unit 2 story home built in the 1890's which was originally a toll house, so it only sits back about 6' back from a main state road. The house had a pretty substantial remodel around 1990, w/ an addition added on, updated electrical, plumbing, etc. done by the previous owner. We've owned the house since '06.
There were no front steps at the front door (that would go out to the main road) when we bought the house - the 'rear' door leading from the driveway and patio is used as the main entrance; the front door is never used and the access to the front of the house is not easy due to the limited space and high traffic. Other than a sliding door to our deck from our bedroom on the 2nd floor, there are no other entrances to the house. We have not had any issues w/ the steps not being there until we recently changed insurance companies - they said they wanted us to have steps in place that were built to code. Our house is on the inside of a slight bend, w/ an intersection at the corner of the front of our house - the slightest obstruction would impede visibility for cars trying to pull out onto the main road - the house itself is already at the limit of being able to just see past.
I've talked to the township, which basically said that our house wasnt in compliance, but they were not asking us to do anything - to comply w/ the insurance company's request, they indirectly suggested to make up a set of steps that didnt have a landing at the top, which would minimize the overall obstruction the steps would create. I have to assume that the previous owner had some type of steps at the time he bought and remodeled the house, there is an existing footing - but I have no idea what was there and for how long. I am admittedly out of my element here - I'm not clear what the proper code would be, if that code would be based on the remodel in 1990 or today, and if its possible to have some kind of alterations to the requirements that would take into account the access, non-use and visibility issues the steps would create.
I'm not certain what other information would be needed - but its a standard 36" wide door that would swing into the home, there is no screen door & the bottom of the doorway is 40" from the ground outside.
Any advice or guidance would be greatly appreciated.
 
Welcome

Give it a few days for replies.

So if the stairs are not installed,,, what did the insurance company say would happen???

I am wondering if the road at some time was widened???

Any sidewalk ?
 
Thanks.
The short answer is they will drop us or substantially raise our rates. We've tried to explain the situation and talk w/ them about different solutions (removing or changing the doorway , partially or fully blocking it from the inside, etc), but they pretty much seemed to not have interest in any compromise. The township suggested that PennDot might prohibit the steps (or something to that effect), but when discussing this w/ the insurance agent, they did not seem to accept that. My intention is to hopefully find some middle ground or some advice to help us properly deal w/ the situation. From the research I've done so far, it seems that far more goes into all of this than I would of thought.
 
Where is your property line in relation to the street???

Or in other words,,, from the front edge of your house how many feet is it to your property line??
 
We did look into removing the door - overall, it would not be economically possible since we would have to redo the entire front of the house to have it look decent cosmetically. But we considered changing the door for a window to minimize the extent of changes - but the agent said that would not be acceptable.
We've tried to get a clear answer if we could even remove the door or not, as we had been told by several times that it was not possible - actually, the only person to say that we could was the guy trying to sell us a window. When trying to look up our local code - I believe it was the fire code that said we needed a 2nd exit 150' or less away - but it is certainly possible/ probable that I misunderstood it all.
 
Technically, the right of way from the state road means that PennDot owns 4' into our living room or something to that effect. The front of our house is about 6' from the pavement.
 
We have looked into other insurance companies - several had said that they would expect some solution to the step situation, though probably have more reasonable expectations. In general, it would be good to figure out a solution to this - besides the insurance companies, if we would go to sell the house - it would likely be an issue then.
 
I am wondering if the road at some time was widened???

Any sidewalk ?
Sorry cda, I missed this.
I'm sure since the 1890's, the road was widened to some extent - but its likely been the same for the last 70+ years.
No sidewalks anywhere around - the few occasions people would walk down our road, they would certainly walk on the other side...
 
Your survey should show where your property line is located.

I would say you need to know that, before you even try to build stairs,,,, that sound like are not needed.
 
If the idea is to make it code-compliant, it seems like you could make it a Juliet balcony by adding a railing.
 
Install a False Balcony on the door and forget about the landing and stairs, just as SH225 has suggested.

In South East PA, try Rob at Anderson Ironworks or open the fingers to walking
https://andersonironworks.com/


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With others about eliminating the door. If your rear door meets the requirement for egress then the insurance company has no standing to say you must have the front door. But, insurance companies are not always subject to reason, logic and fairness. I would ask what standard they are using to tell you a window, or a balcony, or a wall, is "not acceptable".
 
I really appreciate the replies - all very helpful info.
I am not sure if our rear door would meet requirements - its a 70" wide by 78" high sliding door, I thought I read something about it needing to be hinged?
I really like the false balcony - that could be the ideal solution.
No one has given us any issues regarding no steps being there, except the new insurance co - and they say the steps must be to code - so my immediate concern is to satisfy them. But like I mentioned, having a solution that would either comply to any requirements or have the requirements altered and not cause any additional problems is the goal. The previous owner must of gotten lucky to not have to had dealt w/ this when we bought the house, but I doubt we'd have the same luck - so it'd be great to sort this out.
Thanks again!
 
Would the false balcony only work if our back door met the requirements for egress?
Would anyone know the requirements of the false balcony? Is there size limitations? Could it be made from wood?
 
I really appreciate the replies - all very helpful info.
I am not sure if our rear door would meet requirements - its a 70" wide by 78" high sliding door, I thought I read something about it needing to be hinged?
I really like the false balcony - that could be the ideal solution.
No one has given us any issues regarding no steps being there, except the new insurance co - and they say the steps must be to code - so my immediate concern is to satisfy them. But like I mentioned, having a solution that would either comply to any requirements or have the requirements altered and not cause any additional problems is the goal. The previous owner must of gotten lucky to not have to had dealt w/ this when we bought the house, but I doubt we'd have the same luck - so it'd be great to sort this out.
Thanks again!

Still would be nice to know what your survey says,,,

As to where your front property line is in relation to the front door,,, distance???

Some cities require setbacks before you can build.

Also,,, you normally cannot build on someone else’s property!!!
 
Side hinged

Not less than one egress door shall be provided for each dwelling unit. The egress door shall be side-hinged, and shall provide a clear width of not less than 32 inches (813 mm) where measured between the face of the door and the stop, with the door open 90 degrees (1.57 rad). The clear height of the door opening shall be not less than 78 inches (1981 mm) in height measured from the top of the threshold to the bottom of the stop. Other doors shall not be required to comply with these minimum dimensions. Egress doors shall be readily openable from inside the dwelling without the use of a key or special knowledge or effort.
 
Would the false balcony only work if our back door met the requirements for egress?
Would anyone know the requirements of the false balcony? Is there size limitations? Could it be made from wood?
  • Back door needs to meet Egress requirements of side hinge and minimum width.
  • A false balcony is accessed by a door and goes nowhere, thus it can be just a guard across the door opening with a small deck 4 - in deep to prevent small feet from falling through.
  • Yes you could make them from wood, however I would suggest aluminum and have them mimic a wood look.
 
Still would be nice to know what your survey says,,,

As to where your front property line is in relation to the front door,,, distance???

Some cities require setbacks before you can build.

Also,,, you normally cannot build on someone else’s property!!!
I would have to find that - I am not sure. I've been told by a few different people over the years about PennDot having a right of way that either goes 15' from the center of the road or 10' from the edge of the road - I dont really know what it is though, but I agree - I need to find that out.
 
To qualify as an egress door it must be side hinged, thus the sliding door will not comply with R311.2 Egress Door.

https://codes.iccsafe.org/content/IRC2015/chapter-3-building-planning#IRC2015_Pt03_Ch03_SecR311

Thus my suggestion would be to swap out the sliding door for a bi-parting French door.
That is something that we've considered doing - this would be a good reason to do it.
But, would having the sliding door keep us from from being able to put a false balcony at the front door?
 
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