• Welcome to The Building Code Forum

    Your premier resource for building code knowledge.

    This forum remains free to the public thanks to the generous support of our Sawhorse Members and Corporate Sponsors. Their contributions help keep this community thriving and accessible.

    Want enhanced access to expert discussions and exclusive features? Learn more about the benefits here.

    Ready to upgrade? Log in and upgrade now.

help with plans needed

M

mtsaz

REGISTERED
Joined
Dec 8, 2021
Messages
8
Location
phoenix
Hi- I bought plans from an online place and asked them if they were complete---and the answer was "yes except for hvac and site plan- they have been used (for building permits) several times". Great. So I get them and turn them into the city with the hvac and site plan and they are rejected. WHY? No plumbing waste isometric (under slab) or plumbing isometric (2 things) and no attic ventilation.

Seems to me you need those everywhere. So the plan place of course is months behind and wants to charge extra- so my question is----is there anyone here who (if I sent the floor plan)---its a one floor house-- 1800 sq ft- who has the software and knowhow would whip up the plumbing stuff for me?

Of course I will pay you- I'm not asking anyone to do this free- but I just want to get it done asap. I can do the attic ventilation.

Thank you!
 
If you have a contractor, they will know people who can do this for you. It may be their plumbing sub and roofing sub can do it. Or look around for a sole proprietor architect in your area.
 
Some plumbing supply companies can do the isometric drawing when they do a material take off.
 
mtsaz said:
Hi- I bought plans from an online place and asked them if they were complete---and the answer was "yes except for hvac and site plan- they have been used (for building permits) several times". Great. So I get them and turn them into the city with the hvac and site plan and they are rejected. WHY? No plumbing waste isometric (under slab) or plumbing isometric (2 things) and no attic ventilation.

Seems to me you need those everywhere. So the plan place of course is months behind and wants to charge extra- so my question is----is there anyone here who (if I sent the floor plan)---its a one floor house-- 1800 sq ft- who has the software and knowhow would whip up the plumbing stuff for me?

Of course I will pay you- I'm not asking anyone to do this free- but I just want to get it done asap. I can do the attic ventilation.

Thank you!
Click to expand...
Some jurisdictions require more from a set of plans than others... it is very possible that those plans have been used for building permits before, just not in Phoenix. A smaller building department may not require much of anything the way of plans - scrawl something on a napkin and send it in kind of thing. So the plan guys may not be total crooks...
 
It might make a difference if this is being built by reputable or licensed contractors versus the less or in-experienced homeowner. Just a piece of the puzzle.
 
In my 35 years of doing residential work, I have never been asked by a plans examiner to provide plumbing isometrics. Commercial....yes, residential no. Am I alone on this? I do provide comprehensive specs. and drawings. What do others do for residental permit plumbing drawings?
 
mtsaz said:
Hi- I bought plans from an online place and asked them if they were complete---and the answer was "yes except for hvac and site plan- they have been used (for building permits) several times". Great. So I get them and turn them into the city with the hvac and site plan and they are rejected. WHY? No plumbing waste isometric (under slab) or plumbing isometric (2 things) and no attic ventilation.

Seems to me you need those everywhere. So the plan place of course is months behind and wants to charge extra- so my question is----is there anyone here who (if I sent the floor plan)---its a one floor house-- 1800 sq ft- who has the software and knowhow would whip up the plumbing stuff for me?

Of course I will pay you- I'm not asking anyone to do this free- but I just want to get it done asap. I can do the attic ventilation.

Thank you!
Click to expand...
I understand the frustration of not having a set of plans that are complete, I was in the same boat and bought mine online.

If its not required by your jurisdiction and you cant get them to provide, why not just leave them out unless your plumber demands a set of plans.

I am allowed in my area to do my own plumbing, but I just drew up my foundation plan in AutoCAD and drafted up my plumbing plan. Not the most ideal but the underground is easy, nothing to it, but I can see where the remaining can be a challenge with venting through attic, etc. With th help of these forums if you have questions will help and you wont have to have a plumbing plan.

I did come up with the plan to my fixtures with AutoCAD, but venting through attic my plan is a 6 pack of beer, and some thinking. I am not quite there yet though.
 
Rick18071 said:
I have seen many online plans that someone paid for that did not comply to our state code. In fact I would say 99.9% of them did not comply.
Click to expand...
My plans are not complete but they are way above code for some things. My foundation ended up costing thousands more because of it, but I figured a beefy foundation is worth the extra money. I have 10"x24" wide footing, 8" stem wall with 12" interior stem wall plus girder support piers and its only single story on excellent gravel soils.

But yes, most of the ones online are just home designers, not Licensed Architects.
 
Robert said:
In my 35 years of doing residential work, I have never been asked by a plans examiner to provide plumbing isometrics. Commercial....yes, residential no. Am I alone on this? I do provide comprehensive specs. and drawings. What do others do for residental permit plumbing drawings?
Click to expand...
Many jurisdictions issue separate permits for HVAC & Plumb and the subs pull them.
 
Robert said:
In my 35 years of doing residential work, I have never been asked by a plans examiner to provide plumbing isometrics. Commercial....yes, residential no. Am I alone on this? I do provide comprehensive specs. and drawings. What do others do for residental permit plumbing drawings?
Click to expand...
We do not require plumbing isometrics or under-slab plans for residential. Tell us where the fixtures are and the rest is up to field verification. As a matter of fact, nowhere I have ever worked as a building official or general contractor did. But, every AHJ has different requirements, and they should be known prior to submittal. We do ask for ventilation calculations but that is a minor issue and easily resolved.
 
Rick18071 said:
I have seen many online plans that someone paid for that did not comply to our state code. In fact I would say 99.9% of them did not comply.
Click to expand...
We normally don't see plans bought online. The couple of times I have, they were based on the wrong code. Not wrong edition, entirely wrong code.

We rejected them and told them o get them re-drawn by a local drafts person.
 
I've only ever seen one set of plans purchased online and there were tons of problems. Most were solved in plan review, and a few were resolved during inspections. In the end the owner said that whatever money they saved by buying pre-drawn plans was lost twice in the added costs solving said problems. I looked up the company and looked through their website and it almost seems like a scam to me. There were 18-20 standard models to look through and all the flashy assurances that they are "pre-approved" or whatever, and they seem cheap! They are selling poor plans, lying to their customers, and smiling all the way to the bank.
 
Joe.B said:
I've only ever seen one set of plans purchased online and there were tons of problems. Most were solved in plan review, and a few were resolved during inspections. In the end the owner said that whatever money they saved by buying pre-drawn plans was lost twice in the added costs solving said problems. I looked up the company and looked through their website and it almost seems like a scam to me. There were 18-20 standard models to look through and all the flashy assurances that they are "pre-approved" or whatever, and they seem cheap! They are selling poor plans, lying to their customers, and smiling all the way to the bank.
Click to expand...
I bought mine knowing that i would probably have to fix them somewhat. There was few issues with code I just went into PDF editor and fixed the issues. Most of it was at or above code though. But they are pretty basic and not complete with plumbing plan etc. Doesnt matter because i dont need plumbing isometrics.

I paid $400 for my plans, not $4,000. It was worth the day of fixing them for cost savings.

Might be best to buy the cheap online plans you like and get a home designer or Architect to make them complete and up to code. Seems like it would b cheaper if all an Architect has to do is copy the plans and just bring them up to code but IDK.

My area you can draft your own set of plans. Basic AutoCAD skills and you can revise the online plans the was you see fit. I found it easier just to edit the PDF.
 
atvjoel said:
I bought mine knowing that i would probably have to fix them somewhat. There was few issues with code I just went into PDF editor and fixed the issues. Most of it was at or above code though. But they are pretty basic and not complete with plumbing plan etc. Doesnt matter because i dont need plumbing isometrics.

I paid $400 for my plans, not $4,000. It was worth the day of fixing them for cost savings.

Might be best to buy the cheap online plans you like and get a home designer or Architect to make them complete and up to code. Seems like it would b cheaper if all an Architect has to do is copy the plans and just bring them up to code but IDK.

My area you can draft your own set of plans. Basic AutoCAD skills and you can revise the online plans the was you see fit. I found it easier just to edit the PDF.
Click to expand...
Joe.B said:
I've only ever seen one set of plans purchased online and there were tons of problems. Most were solved in plan review, and a few were resolved during inspections. In the end the owner said that whatever money they saved by buying pre-drawn plans was lost twice in the added costs solving said problems. I looked up the company and looked through their website and it almost seems like a scam to me. There were 18-20 standard models to look through and all the flashy assurances that they are "pre-approved" or whatever, and they seem cheap! They are selling poor plans, lying to their customers, and smiling all the way to the bank.
Click to expand...
Yu can always amend the garbage plan and add a sheet or two. No autocad skills there is other programs and you can also draft them to scale by hand, not hard.
 
All that is required for permit here are a site plan, floor plan(s), a section showing typical foundation and wall and floor construction; a "questionaire" for MEP, roofing, etc.; and info on doors, windows, and insulation for energy code. The questionnaire includes a number of cuts and pastes from code (amended 2018 IRC) A septic system requires a design, usually all part of the septic system contract. I'd guess you could use a plan service set of drawings for house, perhaps with a few notes added.

Oh yeah, over 1500 square feet requires sealed drawings.
 
atvjoel said:
I bought mine knowing that i would probably have to fix them somewhat. There was few issues with code I just went into PDF editor and fixed the issues. Most of it was at or above code though. But they are pretty basic and not complete with plumbing plan etc. Doesnt matter because i dont need plumbing isometrics.

I paid $400 for my plans, not $4,000. It was worth the day of fixing them for cost savings.

Might be best to buy the cheap online plans you like and get a home designer or Architect to make them complete and up to code. Seems like it would b cheaper if all an Architect has to do is copy the plans and just bring them up to code but IDK.

My area you can draft your own set of plans. Basic AutoCAD skills and you can revise the online plans the was you see fit. I found it easier just to edit the PDF.
Click to expand...
Yeah, $400 for a design you like with the knowledge that more work may be needed is very reasonable and practical. This guy paid more like $1600 and thought he had a complete set. Also CA tends to have more restrictive codes, he ended up having to hire an engineer and a drafter to fix things. Things that seem simple can be very complicated, for instance rise and run on stairs can drastically affect the entire design if they aren't correct.
 
Joe.B said:
Yeah, $400 for a design you like with the knowledge that more work may be needed is very reasonable and practical. This guy paid more like $1600 and thought he had a complete set. Also CA tends to have more restrictive codes, he ended up having to hire an engineer and a drafter to fix things. Things that seem simple can be very complicated, for instance rise and run on stairs can drastically affect the entire design if they aren't correct.
Click to expand...
Ya California is another animal. I was born there and years of Land Survey experience in CA. They love their fees. Impact fees, school fees, permit fees, environmental impact fee, administrative fee, engineering review fee, fee for a fee with another fee on top of that fee.

I do understand having additional structural code due to seismic, but wouldnt be my cup of tea building in CA.

Its tough to fix the plans you bought online for CA, they have their own code as CAli always has to be special. Same goes for Anchorage, Alaska though but their code is more for seismic. They demand "seismic hooks" or large all threat that run from footing to top of stem wall and dont allow monolithic slab pours.
 
FOR THE RECORD---1-I am a licensed hvac contractor. I will do the hvac. 2- I knew they did not have hvac, or site plan. 3- this is a new build. this isn't a homeowner or a "barn raising". I submitted my plans (with my man J that I did and site plan I did) and it was shot down. WHY?

1- no attic ventilation drawing/calculations. ---OK, I can do that easy peasy. Thats my fault.
2- No waste isometric.
3 No plumbing list (of materials) and schematic.

I specifically asked the plan sellers "Have these been submitted for plan approval with a municipality before?" ANS: YES many times. WHich I think is a lie. Without attic ventilation- which is code everywhere- ---I dont see it.

I will do the drawings myself if I have to. I just dont want to because I'm not a plumber. I dont want to research every fitting and every connection but I will if thats what it takes.

Once I get the building permit- I will hire a guy to grade and prep the lot, a concrete guy---and plumbing guy to dig the trenches for the waste lines and the few underground plumbing lines. They will be licensed contractors and will be responsible to do the concrete/foundation, plumbing, etc. Then once done, i have a framer lined up- and I have an electrician lined up. I will get drywall when time comes. I will do hvac myself. I do it for many contractors already and I have done it for many new builds----I stopped because the profit is not that great. Yes, you might do 200 of them but I can't do anything else because we are married to that subdivision until finished---but I can do that no problem.

the only "homeowner" involvement might be painting- and tile because my son in law was a tile installer before i trained him to do air conditioning.
so that is whats going on.

If i were ready to do the plumbing- I would get a plumber now. I am just trying to provide the city what they have asked for. They redlined my submissions and asked specifically for the plumbing items and attic ventilation info.

Thank you all. I appreciate all the comments and suggestions. I'm not trying to work around or DIY---I'm just trying to get permit so I can get STARTED.
 
I paid 3500$ for these. I am not happy. The company doesn't even answer messages/emails when I inquire about the plumbing drawings. the irony is they probably have them already done in their computer. Whatever---I will get them done
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top