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Hinges Deal or Dud????

Well..........my P.O.S. IT department has once again blocked me from a video site............
 
Where's the ES report? :wink:

I like the ingenuity, but I'm curious as to when the link would trigger being at least 7" below the door opening. How does ceiling height come into play?

Maybe better than nothing, but likely too little-too late.
 
At what temperature does the link melt? Has any 3rd party testing been done?
 
Kind of a neat idea but not sold on the value. A regular spring hinge would do the same thing as long as people dont block the door open.

Reminds me of what people say about fire bolts used with panics... " They work but there arent any people left by the time they trigger"
 
I agree, get some testing done to back it up, I like the concept.

And please don't try to insert it into the code as a requirement..............with testing, I could see it as an acceptable alternative to the required self closing garage man door, folks wouldn't need to disable the self-closing function, based on their level of convenience.
 
Interesting, but I'm curious how it would react in a full-scale fire test - we all know it's not the fire that kills, it's the products of combustion, and I'm thinking that the fire would have to be generating a LOT of heat (and a lot more smoke and gases) before this door hinge would achieve it's rated temperature and close the door.
 
Well the idea is not to replace a spring loaded door ( at first). It is designed for INTERIOR doors right now to compartmentalize the fire. I know the difference between pulling up to a fully involved structure and a one room fire. We believe that this product will give occupants a little more time if there is a fire by closing the interior doors thus preventing the spread of fire so quickly. A hollow core Luann door will hold a fire for approximately 5 minutes so if the doors inside the house all close automatically with our hinge it will slow the spread of fire saving civilians as well as making the fire safer( if that's even possible) by not allowing it to spread so quickly
 
We definetly need third party testing but we believe this is another layer of safety for occupants as well as firefighters by retarding the spread of the fire so quickly. But as far as inserting it into the code, why wouldn't we want it inserted into the code for say pre hung interior doors to compartmentalize the fire.
 
Well knowing first hand being a NYC firefighter the temperature at the ceiling level is waaaayyyyyyy above the temperature of the fuseable link which is set right now at 137 degrees. From what I understand about the old fuseable links ( and I am by no means an expert) is that they were set at a much higher temperature and were further down on the door. We did do our own tests in a fire in Long Island and the hinge performed as designed. We do need independent testing. To answer the smoke question which we have encountered a lot. The fire plumes up to the ceiling spreading along the ceiling till reaching maximum width then starts down. The space between the ceiling and the top of the door would be filled before smoke could enter the room by the time that smoke is low enough to enter the room the ambient heat and radiant heat would trip the fuseable link before the smoke could enter the room. If the ceiling temperature is 1000+ degrees 1 1/12 feet down would be well over 300 degrees to trip the link.
 
But as far as inserting it into the code, why wouldn't we want it inserted into the code for say pre hung interior doors to compartmentalize the fire.
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R101.3 Intent.

The purpose of this code is to establish minimum requirements to safeguard the public safety

When everything that safeguards the public becomes part of the code we no longer have a minimum code. We will become a nanny building code
 
Getty said:
Well knowing first hand being a NYC firefighter the temperature at the ceiling level is waaaayyyyyyy above the temperature of the fuseable link which is set right now at 137 degrees. From what I understand about the old fuseable links ( and I am by no means an expert) is that they were set at a much higher temperature and were further down on the door. We did do our own tests in a fire in Long Island and the hinge performed as designed. We do need independent testing. To answer the smoke question which we have encountered a lot. The fire plumes up to the ceiling spreading along the ceiling till reaching maximum width then starts down. The space between the ceiling and the top of the door would be filled before smoke could enter the room by the time that smoke is low enough to enter the room the ambient heat and radiant heat would trip the fuseable link before the smoke could enter the room. If the ceiling temperature is 1000+ degrees 1 1/12 feet down would be well over 300 degrees to trip the link.
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You may want to revisit your hypotheses once you see tests in actual conditions, real life houses/apartments.

I think it is not going to achieve the results as stated above.

If you have a normal height ceiling, at what height is the hinge???

Watch some NIST test fires and watch fire development and fire dynamics.

Do a search on their site for various videos

http://www.nist.gov/fire/
 
CDs thank you for the feedback I do appreciate all points of view and I am eager to learn more. I do not see what you see in the video showing a fire in the room at around 1:30 into the fire the heat and smoke are at the ceiling level and just above the door. I do not have a temp at ceiling but at 3:00 into the fire things are spontaneously combusting do to convection so it would have to be hot enough down low to trip the link and at that moment in the fire there is not enough smoke that it would be uninhabitable. So what I see from the video is that having the hinge would be better than not having the hinge and that there wouldn't be enough smoke entering the room to incapacitate a person before the hinge let loose. Please tell me or show me what I am missing. I also explained we did a test ourselves and the hinge operated as designed yes some smoke got in the room but it nearly what would have entered had the door stayed open. I really am interested in your opinion and comments. With a celing height of 8 ft the hinge height would be 6 ft the transference of heat would not be hard to achieve at a set off temperature of 137 degrees. Please tell me what I am not seeing.
 
Ok nist has a lot of videos

Which one did you look at

What is the link

And is your proposal to have every door in a persons house have the hinges installed ??

Sorry just not a fusible link fan
 
Please show me the error of my ways

steveray said:
I give FB's IT a DUD....I have doubts that the hinges will actually work, but it is a good idea.....
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Cda yes our vision is to have this on all interior doors in a house or apartment to compartmentalize the fire. I do understand your disdain for fuseable links however it seems a lot of people have the same problem. The video I saw was stages of a fire. But as I said I have been in hundreds of fires if I pulled up to a compartmentalized fire as opposed to a fully involved structure the difference is night and day. May I ask your occupation so I can embarrass myself some more lol. The thought we have is that most new construction have pre hung doors installed if the pre hangs came with these hinges that would be a way to accomplish the initial phase then once that success is realized it will expand into retrofitting existing interior doors. Please tell me besides your disdain for fuseable links why this is a bad product or why it won't work or some other thing that I am not seeing. We really do want this product to save civilian and firefighters lives and we want to get it right so any feedback is positive for us. Thank you in advance.
 
I hope you return cda to help me and answer some of my questions. Thanks again for the questions
 
Getty said:
Cda yes our vision is to have this on all interior doors in a house or apartment to compartmentalize the fire. I do understand your disdain for fuseable links however it seems a lot of people have the same problem. The video I saw was stages of a fire. But as I said I have been in hundreds of fires if I pulled up to a compartmentalized fire as opposed to a fully involved structure the difference is night and day. May I ask your occupation so I can embarrass myself some more lol. The thought we have is that most new construction have pre hung doors installed if the pre hangs came with these hinges that would be a way to accomplish the initial phase then once that success is realized it will expand into retrofitting existing interior doors. Please tell me besides your disdain for fuseable links why this is a bad product or why it won't work or some other thing that I am not seeing. We really do want this product to save civilian and firefighters lives and we want to get it right so any feedback is positive for us. Thank you in advance.
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firefighter long time ago

fire inspector for 27 yrs

fire investigator 21 yrs

I may be totally wrong.

set up a few houses, burn them show the video

I think there are a lot of variables involved if the hinges will work or not,

also long term, will people like me paint the hinges/fusible area when they paint walls and doors.

and, liability on you if they do not work, even though not specifically to save lives or property. Remember the Vulcan
 
I hope you return cda to help me and answer some of my questions. Thanks again for the questions
 
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