How long to do an inspection

[Yankee]

As expected. It defies logic to think that an electrical inspector, for example, who has done nothing but electrical inspections for the last 20 years is not going to be more competent than a combination inspector who must divide his attention and continuing ed on several trades over the same time period. There is nothing more offensive than a Jack-of-all-trades inspector who rambles on about how competent they are while in the process leaving no doubt about their true abilities. I realize they are probably doing the job to the best of their abilities, but they will typically never be as knowledgable about any trade as a trade specific inspector.

As a combo everything, I have never said nor do I act like I have more knowledge than a specialty inspector (or even a licensed tradeperson!). . . I don't, and why would or should I? Hence the word "specialty"! Having said that, lots of jurisdictions have ONE position for inspector. Who should they hire, one "specialty" inspector who knows a lot about ONE trade? Or a generalist who knows some about all trades? I guess each jurisdiction can decide that for themselves!

 

[Yankee]

Did you read this? http://www.thebuildingcodeforum.com/forum/residential-electrical-codes/10271-how-long-do-inspection-3.html#post96021Don't need fire stop to stop a fire from entering a wall cavity and if people think that inserting something into a drilled hole that is going to do nothing but leave balls laying in the ashes is going to save a wood structure they sure don’t have very much fire knowledge.

There isn't anything that "saves a wood structure". The point is to construct in a way that gives occupants more time to save themselves. Draft stopping and fire blocking both do some of that.

 

[jwelectric]

There isn't anything that "saves a wood structure". The point is to construct in a way that gives occupants more time to save themselves. Draft stopping and fire blocking both do some of that.

This is very true. The entire fire block on this planet is not going to stop a fire in a single family dwelling so to mandate that a contractor install it is nothing short of a joke and a waste of our natural resources.

In exterior walls we stuff as much insulation in the wall cavity as we can for energy conversation. Why do anything else to any hole drilled either in the bottom or top plate in this cavity? By the time the chimney effect takes place between the crawl space and the attic in these wall cavities the floor is gone.

 

[jar546]

I love North Carolina. We do things the way they are supposed to be done.Opinion only...... just like other parts.

The highest area of fire fatality is from single family residences and North Carolina apparently fails to do simple basic fire prevention efforts to slow the growth rate of fire in a single family residence. The codes had changes from balloon framing several decades ago.....

a electrical short in the basement wall appears to have the potential in North Carolina to travel upward into concealed spaces between floors, upward thorughwalls, and eventually into the attic ----- because they don't use fire blocking or draft-stopping in single family residences?

And we do things right??? Wow !

I am fairly confident that most fires are in older homes built way before there were codes. That is of course my experience in Pennsylvania. I would love to see factual statistics of fires and the age of the home and code requirements.

 

[Yankee]

This is very true. The entire fire block on this planet is not going to stop a fire in a single family dwelling so to mandate that a contractor install it is nothing short of a joke and a waste of our natural resources.In exterior walls we stuff as much insulation in the wall cavity as we can for energy conversation. Why do anything else to any hole drilled either in the bottom or top plate in this cavity? By the time the chimney effect takes place between the crawl space and the attic in these wall cavities the floor is gone.

And that is why if you read 2009 IRC 302.11.1 (7), this all makes beautiful sense!!!

 

[north star]

= = =

"Only in fire rated walls. See the post above for more information and by the way we are on the 2011 cycle"

This was not your original statement.

"Maybe I am way out in left field here but there is no requirement in the NEC for draft stopping at all."

The requirement for sealing around openings IS in the NEC!......BTW, ...it is in the `11 NEC too!As to who actually seals the openings is up to the contractual arrangments for each project.

$ $ $

 

[jwelectric]

And that is why if you read 2009 IRC 302.11.1 (7), this all makes beautiful sense!!!

NC does not use the ICC "R" codes.

R302.11.1 Fireblocking materials. Except as provided in Section R302.11, Item 4, fireblocking shall consist of the following materials.

1. Two-inch (51 mm) nominal lumber.

2. Two thicknesses of 1-inch (25.4 mm) nominal lumber with broken lap joints.

3. One thickness of 23/32-inch (18.3 mm) wood structural panels with joints backed by 23/32-inch (18.3 mm) wood structural panels.

4. One thickness of 3/4-inch (19.1 mm) particleboard with joints backed by 3/4-inch (19.1 mm) particleboard.

5. One-half-inch (12.7 mm) gypsum board.

6. One-quarter-inch (6.4 mm) cement-based millboard.

7. Batts or blankets of mineral wool or glass fiber or other approved materials installed in such a manner as to be securely retained in place.

 

[jwelectric]

This was not your original statement.

There are no fire rated walls in a dwelling unit so the sections you have posted does not apply to a dwelling unit. I have point out several times that this is the residential thread [/color]The requirement for sealing around openings IS in the NEC!......BTW, ...it is in the `11 NEC too!

As to who actually seals the openings is up to the contractual arrangments for each project.

[/size]$ $ $[/font][/size] And in the proper place the electrical inspector can jump up and down but once again we are in the residential thread so not this time

 

[ICE]

I can refer you to an electrical only inspector who is nothing short of a bafoon.

Me too...except mine is a buffoon...I couldn't say that a week ago.

 

[ICE]

There was no building permit because this is a service upgrade and nothing more. In NC the electrical inspector could not require the annular space around the penetrating items to be sealed with an approved fireblock material nor could a strap be required. That's because the electrical inspector is barred from enforcing anything that is not in the NEC. Amazing.

What's worse is that this is in the IBC:

717.2.1.4 Fireblocking integrity. The integrity of fireblocks shall be maintained.

This is in the IRC:

R302.11.2 Fireblocking integrity. The integrity of all fireblocks shall be maintained.

Getting closer to code compliance.

Talk about turning a blind eye to a life safety issue. In NC fireblocking is "nothing short of a joke and a waste of our natural resources" and "most fires are in older homes" in PA.

Now that, gentlemen, is a travesty. Not so much for the electrician but the guy from PA, well he knows better.

 

[Yankee]

nc does not use the icc "r" codes. R302.11.1 fireblocking materials. Except as provided in section r302.11, item 4, fireblocking shall consist of the following materials.

1. Two-inch (51 mm) nominal lumber.

2. Two thicknesses of 1-inch (25.4 mm) nominal lumber with broken lap joints.

3. One thickness of 23/32-inch (18.3 mm) wood structural panels with joints backed by 23/32-inch (18.3 mm) wood structural panels.

4. One thickness of 3/4-inch (19.1 mm) particleboard with joints backed by 3/4-inch (19.1 mm) particleboard.

5. One-half-inch (12.7 mm) gypsum board.

6. One-quarter-inch (6.4 mm) cement-based millboard.

7. Batts or blankets of mineral wool or glass fiber or other approved materials installed in such a manner as to be securely retained in place.

exactly my point! Thanks!

 

[ICE]

exactly my point! Thanks!

So are you saying that the top and bottom plates can have holes as long as the wall cavity is insulated with batts or blankets?

 

[Yankee]

Did you read the section? Refers back to 302.11 (4) for your concern.

No, my point is that there might be general requirements under an adopted building code that an electrical inspector has no knowledge of (and maybe shouldn't be expected to).

Although reading the Section 300.21 in the NEC, it is not clear to me that it isn't meaning ALL buildings/walls. The first sentence does not refer to fire rated walls at all. Just walls. In reading the handbook, it seems they are only talking of rated walls.

 

[ICE]

Did you read the section? Refers back to 302.11 (4) for your concern.

Is that an answer to the question?

In reading the thread one gets the impression that the answer to my question is yes.

R302.11.1.2 Unfaced fiberglass. Unfaced fiberglass

batt insulation used as fireblocking shall fill the entire

cross section of the wall cavity to a minimum height of

16 inches (406 mm) measured vertically. When piping,

conduit or similar obstructions are encountered, the insulation

shall be packed tightly around the obstruction.

However that is not in the IBC which is the code in play here.

My AHJ has not allowed fiberglass insulation or mineral wool to be packed in the hole.

The building is not in a static condition and with movement the stuff falls out.

 

[Yankee]

Is that an answer to the question?

Yes, if you read the section it is the answer to your question. If you don't have the book I will quote it for you. would you like me to?

 

[Yankee]

Is that an answer to the question?In reading the thread one gets the impression that the answer to my question is yes.

R302.11.1.2 Unfaced fiberglass. Unfaced fiberglass

batt insulation used as fireblocking shall fill the entire

cross section of the wall cavity to a minimum height of

16 inches (406 mm) measured vertically. When piping,

conduit or similar obstructions are encountered, the insulation

shall be packed tightly around the obstruction.

However that is not in the IBC which is the code in play here.

My AHJ has not allowed fiberglass insulation or mineral wool to be packed in the hole.

The building is not in a static condition and with movement the stuff falls out.

Well I was only quoting the code text. I can't very well make arguments with regard to your AHJ's interpretation of the code text.

 

[ICE]

Yes, if you read the section it is the answer to your question. If you don't have the book I will quote it for you. would you like me to?

Please do that...and thanks

 

[Alias]

As a combo everything, I have never said nor do I act like I have more knowledge than a specialty inspector (or even a licensed tradeperson!). . . I don't, and why would or should I? Hence the word "specialty"! Having said that, lots of jurisdictions have ONE position for inspector. Who should they hire, one "specialty" inspector who knows a lot about ONE trade? Or a generalist who knows some about all trades? I guess each jurisdiction can decide that for themselves!

Thank you Yankee!

I am a department of 1 in a very small city (2,795). I take great offence to the inference that just because I am a combination inspector and not a single trade inspector that I don't know road apples about what I am talking about.

I don't claim to "know it all" nor do I ever expect to have all of the answers. What I do do is enforce the code to make sure that the buildings that are built in my community are done to code.

Sue, "Where the West still lives.....":cowboy

 

[Uncle Bob]

I'm a certified Combination Residential Inspector; and I also have the individual inspector certifications as a Residential building, plumbing, electrical and mechanical inspectior; that's how I got my Combination Inspector's certification; by being individually certified in each catagory.

The 2009 IRC is 868 pages long; and it burns my butt that a Master Plumber and journeyman plumbers too; haven't taken the time to learn the lousy 54 pages of the Plumbing part of the IRC. That goes for all the trades. If I can keep up with all of the requirements, they should be able to keep up with theirs.

I will give them this; that there are "traditions"; statewide accepted code violations; (unfortunately) within states that have allowed them to remain ignorant of the codes. Most tradesmen I meet just want to know "what do you want me to do?" instead of doing the work to code.

The purpose of the creation of the ICC was suppose to be to make code requirements the same throught the United States; but, unfortunately the real requirements are not the same from one municipality to the next; and worse, in some cases from one inspector to the next.

How long should and inspection take? As long as necessary to insure code compliance.