• Welcome to the new and improved Building Code Forum. We appreciate you being here and hope that you are getting the information that you need concerning all codes of the building trades. This is a free forum to the public due to the generosity of the Sawhorses, Corporate Supporters and Supporters who have upgraded their accounts. If you would like to have improved access to the forum please upgrade to Sawhorse by first logging in then clicking here: Upgrades

IBC Accessibiility to a Church Platform

L

Lynn

Bronze Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2010
Messages
32
Location
Arkansas
Doing a plans review on a new church sanctuary.

We have adopted the 2006 IBC and as such, Chapter 11 of the IBC and the referenced ANSI A117.1 standards.

Is anyone aware of any exception in the IBC, Chapter 11 or the A117.1 standard, for access to the raised platform area that serves the pulpit and choir?

Also, what accomodations would be necessary to provide accessibility to a baptismal pool behind the pulpit that is raised 4' or so above the pulpit platform?

I don't find any exceptions and have been calling for a ramp or lift for accessibility to these areas.

Looking for any exceptions that I may have missed.

Thanks
 
The pulpit area might fall under

1103.2.3 Employee work areas.

Spaces and elements within employee work areas shall only be required to comply with Sections 907.9.1.2, 1007 and 1104.3.1 and shall be designed and constructed so that individuals with disabilities can approach, enter and exit the work area. Work areas, or portions of work areas, that are less than 150 square feet (14 m2) in area and elevated 7 inches (178 mm) or more above the ground or finish floor where the elevation is essential to the function of the space shall be exempt from all requirements.

But I do not see any exception for the choir area in fact 1108.2.7 would specifically require an accessible route

1108.2.7 Performance areas.

An accessible route shall directly connect the performance area to the assembly seating area where a circulation path directly connects a performance area to an assembly seating area. An accessible route shall be provided from performance areas to ancillary areas or facilities used by performers.

As for the baptismal the code is silent it is not a bathing or recreational facility
 
There are no exceptions.

Time for churches to stop discrimination.

All areas need to be accessible, including the pool.

And as to employees, that is only when the "general public" is not permitted in those areas, If the parishioners are allowed, the disabled must have access
 
mark handler said:
There are no exceptions. Time for churches to stop discrimination.

All areas need to be accessible, including the pool.

And as to employees, that is only when the "general public" is not permitted in those areas, If the parishioners are allowed, the disabled must have access
Click to expand...
Churches are not violating an individuals civil rights and therefore are not discriminating against anyone according to Federal law (ADA) Last I read they are exempt
 
Maybe exempt from ADA but they are not exempt from code provisions!

Joe
 
Thanks for the replies.

The platform in question is a sizeable area. Much larger than needed to accomodate only the pastor and his pulpit.

Not sure how you could consider it a work area when visiting pastors, or the congragation (other than handicap persons), or a gospel singing group, or a church christmas pagent can be invited up on the platform.

Seems to me like it is much more of a performance area that a work area.

Unless somebody can tell me different, looks like a platform lift or ramp is requied.

Thanks again for your thoughts and expertise.
 
mtlogcabin said:
Churches are not violating an individuals civil rights and therefore are not discriminating against anyone according to Federal law (ADA) Last I read they are exempt
Click to expand...
Just because Churches are exempt from ADA does not mean they are not violating an individuals civil rights.
 
If your state or jurisdiction adopted the IBC, then the BS ADA exemption for churches may apply but the church must now comply with accessibility of the IBC & ANSI A117.1

Sounds like the post is specific to what is required and not whether or not ADA applies.
 
Agree with requiring access...I have had that fight and won at least twice in the past few years,,,,,the baptismal I would have to look very closely at to try to make that determination......
 
If you research this subject..... I have asked this question in the past.

Why is an organization that is trying to serve the greater being causing or prohibitng access to people who may very well want to participate........

Times have changed and now I have to add:

The men and women who are wounded warriors deserve the opportunity to particpate and perform in ceremonies, choirs, public speaking, and baptisms......They served to protect our freedom, why wouldn't we support them in the years to come...............
 
Thanks for all the responses.

One more question:

Does anyone have a reasonable solution to providing access into the baptistry for disabled persons?

I can see a lift for access to the level of entry into the baptistry, but then would you have to have a swimming pool type of hoist chair to transfer into the pool?

Seems like the baptistry access becomes unreasonable.

Looking for any methods of addressing this issue.
 
Lynn said:
Thanks for all the responses.One more question:

Does anyone have a reasonable solution to providing access into the baptistry for disabled persons?

I can see a lift for access to the level of entry into the baptistry, but then would you have to have a swimming pool type of hoist chair to transfer into the pool?

Seems like the baptistry access becomes unreasonable.

Looking for any methods of addressing this issue.
Click to expand...
You can probably get a portable pool lift “on the cheap” or donated from a major hotel chain…..
 
Just to throw in my 2 cents, if your jurisdiction has adopted Appendix E of the IBC 2009, then a speaker lectern on a raised platform will need to be accessible:

IBC 2009; E103.1 Raised platforms. In banquet rooms or spaces where a head table or speaker’s lectern is located on a raised platform, an accessible route shall be provided to the platform.
 
Going back thru the post I noticed there was a response indicating, "As for the baptismal the code is silent it is not a bathing or recreational facility"

Is anyone else taking the position that the baptismal pool is exempt from accessibility provisions?
 
Lynn said:
Going back thru the post I noticed there was a response indicating, "As for the baptismal the code is silent it is not a bathing or recreational facility"Is anyone else taking the position that the baptismal pool is exempt from accessibility provisions?
Click to expand...
Access Required

International Building Code

2012

1101.2 Design.

Buildings and facilities shall be designed and constructed to be accessible

1103.1 Where required.

Sites, buildings, structures, facilities, elements and spaces, temporary or permanent, shall be accessible to persons with physical disabilities

1103.2.7 Raised areas.

Raised areas used primarily for purposes of security, life safety or fire safety including, but not limited to, observation galleries, prison guard towers, fire towers or lifeguard stands, are not required to be accessible or to be served by an accessible route.

1103.2.8 Limited access spaces.

Nonoccupiable spaces accessed only by ladders, catwalks, crawl spaces, freight elevators or very narrow passageways are not required to be accessible.
 
Lynn said:
Doing a plans review on a new church sanctuary. We have adopted the 2006 IBC and as such, Chapter 11 of the IBC and the referenced ANSI A117.1 standards. Is anyone aware of any exception in the IBC, Chapter 11 or the A117.1 standard, for access to the raised platform area that serves the pulpit and choir? Also, what accomodations would be necessary to provide accessibility to a baptismal pool behind the pulpit that is raised 4' or so above the pulpit platform? I don't find any exceptions and have been calling for a ramp or lift for accessibility to these areas. Looking for any exceptions that I may have missed. Thanks
Click to expand...
The areas are used for worship. Not mere performances.
 
mark handler said:
Time for churches to stop discrimination.
Click to expand...
Yeah, Baptists should hire Wiccans as Youth Ministers and the local mosque should hire a Rabbi as Imam.
 
Lynn said:
Thanks for all the responses. One more question: Does anyone have a reasonable solution to providing access into the baptistry for disabled persons? I can see a lift for access to the level of entry into the baptistry, but then would you have to have a swimming pool type of hoist chair to transfer into the pool? Seems like the baptistry access becomes unreasonable. Looking for any methods of addressing this issue.
Click to expand...
Again, it's worship, not mere performance.
 
+ + +

From Section 1108.2.1, `06 IBC: Services.

Services and facilities provided in areas not required to be accessible

shall be provided on an accessible level and shall be accessible.



An approved & compliant ramped access seems to be the most viable

solution......Time to redesign the baptistry for its use!

FWIW & IMO, the design would seem to be incomplete for there

to be an Accessible route in to the [ church ] building and not to one

of the most important areas of service.

+ + +
 
Last edited by a moderator:
"Again, it's worship, not mere performance."

Oh, I must disagree on that point. A lot of the churches now have A/V setups that would make a rock band jealous. It must be a performance.
 
fatboy said:
"Again, it's worship, not mere performance." Oh, I must disagree on that point. A lot of the churches now have A/V setups that would make a rock band jealous. It must be a performance.
Click to expand...
And what basis in law do you have for determining what is and isn't worship?
 
north star said:
FWIW & IMO, the design would seem to be incomplete for there to be an Accessible route in to the [ church ] building and not to one of the most important areas of service.
Click to expand...
When it comes to my religion, your opinion of what is and isn't an important area isn't relevant. So to speak.

IMO, when it comes to places of worship, accessibility interpretations should be made in favor of consistency with ADA.

Don't get me wrong.

Accessibility is good design.

But there's a reason for a limited interpretation.

It's called "The First Amendment."
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top