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IRC 2009 Definitions

Re: IRC 2009 Definitions

RJJ,

Well, I hope you're happy now. :D You wanted to get "this going", ...well,

you've done that. It's a going! :lol:

 
Re: IRC 2009 Definitions

I've got the popcorn popping in the microwave :roll:
 
Re: IRC 2009 Definitions

Uncle Bob said:

Rick,What the hell are you talking about?

"3 hour fire rated walls; concrete enclosed stairways; concrete stairways, brick doors?"

What are you building; Hitler's bunker?

It's a HOME for crying out loud!

And, what has this to do with the Original Topic?
Click to expand...
UB: I think he's probably suggesting that this would be a good design for a habitable attic, since they are usually smaller. Main levels would probably need something a little less flimsy.

Come on guys, I think you're being a little harsh here. I mean who among us has never lived in a house with a 3 hour exterior concrete wall with a masonry interior stair enclosure leading to an exterior fire escape with not more than one flight of stairs to a fire escape landing?

I asked for a price adjustment on mine, because the door was made from cheap Mexican brick, and not the good stuff. It was easier to open, however.

Rick, you're a good sport.
 
Re: IRC 2009 Definitions

TexasBO,

"Come on guys, I think you're being a little harsh here."

:lol: :lol:

Don't take me wrong; I love to read our Rick's posts. He brings a refreshing new slant to every topic he posts on. That "Attic; Habitable area" would be a great place to put a concrete safe room. I'm just waiting to see how it's going to be supported from the attic to the foundation.

Uncle Bob
 
Re: IRC 2009 Definitions

UB - you can support it to the foundation by using some of that structural strap net stuff... :lol:
 
Re: IRC 2009 Definitions

Tor-Eggs.

From the website:

"THE LESS DEADLY, LEAST EXPENSIVE, AND MOST SUCCESSFUL WAY TO RESPOND TO A NATURAL OR ENVIRONMENTAL DISASTER IS WHEN THE BUILDINGS AND STRUCTURES OF THE IMPACTED COMMUNITY SURVIVE THE QUAKE, STORM, FLOOD AND/OR FIRE!!!!"

He takes great pride in advertising his structural system as "less deadly", but "least expensive"...

The website is priceless.

Sorry for hijacking to high holy hell.

"God Bless and God's Speed"
 
Re: IRC 2009 Definitions

If you guys keep talking about him, he'll end up here.......just sayin......... :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
Re: IRC 2009 Definitions

I'll apologize in advance for perpetuating another ill-educated posit by our resident unlicensed designer, but I can't ignore it...

"I can go with 1hr rated door but not likely a 3-hour rated door. You want to move a brick door?"

What planet do you live on? Standard door ratings for fire doors are 45 minutes, 1 1/2 hours and three hours (once upon a time known as 'C' label, 'B' label and 'A' label). That's a steel door on a steel frame rated for 3 hours. No bricks, no additional weight to speak of.

I refuse to address the concept of three hour rated exterior walls on a SFR, because the idea is just plain silly!
 
Re: IRC 2009 Definitions

Uncle Bob said:
TexasBO,"Come on guys, I think you're being a little harsh here." :lol: :lol: Don't take me wrong; I love to read our Rick's posts. He brings a refreshing new slant to every topic he posts on. That "Attic; Habitable area" would be a great place to put a concrete safe room. I'm just waiting to see how it's going to be supported from the attic to the foundation.Uncle Bob
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That is a structural decision.Below is just a grossly simplified mock up. I'll leave design flexibility up to each designer, architect, engineer, ect. Other design factors for the remaining walls may apply. It is just an illustration of the concept in rough.Concept Mock-Up.PNG[/attachment:33qo9ue5]View attachment 67

View attachment 67

/monthly_2010_05/572953b543fac_ConceptMock-Up.PNG.c7ea0167b27ac60c98f499000b80e221.PNG
 
Re: IRC 2009 Definitions

JD,

You beat me to the post again. Thank you for explaining doors. I really think I would have beat you to that post this time, but was ROFLMAO. That and I had to send my inspector out to a job that is getting some rated doors today and tell the contractor that he needed to order brick instead.

RA,

I was kinda having a bad day and needed a break so called up the BB to check things out, thanks for brightening my day.

I started to pop the popcorn, but decided to go directly to my hip flask.

I really have to try and read the BB more times during the day.
 
Re: IRC 2009 Definitions

John Drobysh said:
I'll apologize in advance for perpetuating another ill-educated posit by our resident unlicensed designer, but I can't ignore it..."I can go with 1hr rated door but not likely a 3-hour rated door. You want to move a brick door?"

What planet do you live on? Standard door ratings for fire doors are 45 minutes, 1 1/2 hours and three hours (once upon a time known as 'C' label, 'B' label and 'A' label). That's a steel door on a steel frame rated for 3 hours. No bricks, no additional weight to speak of.

I refuse to address the concept of three hour rated exterior walls on a SFR, because the idea is just plain silly!
Click to expand...
I wasn't looking at the rating of the door but interior door to the concept would be 1-1/2 hours. But what do they make the steel door survive fire for 3 hours - solid steel billet that is 3-ft x 7-ft. OR coated in Asbestos. If you can find a door that is of that mass then so be it.

There are a number of design solutions. If the stairway is just from attic space to an exterior stairway, there is a number of design methods to support the structure and weight and meet any seismic zone.

The illustration shows a simple ground to roof type system. Various techniques and methods can be done with similar fire-break.

The point of the stairway is to provide a non-impeded means of escape from a fire. A stairway of non-combustable construction on the interior with doors out to the exterior and an exterior stairway of non-combustible construction can also be available. Integrated means of ventilation maybe a critical and important part of design. 3-hr wall rating can be as simple as C.M.U. construction or brick or other such construction.
 
Re: IRC 2009 Definitions

texas transplant said:
JD,You beat me to the post again. Thank you for explaining doors. I really think I would have beat you to that post this time, but was ROFLMAO. That and I had to send my inspector out to a job that is getting some rated doors today and tell the contractor that he needed to order brick instead.

RA,

I was kinda having a bad day and needed a break so called up the BB to check things out, thanks for brightening my day.

I started to pop the popcorn, but decided to go directly to my hip flask.

I really have to try and read the BB more times during the day.
Click to expand...
I didn't have time to look at exact door rating but I would be looking at whatever rating that can meet a minimum of 60 minutes. So it would be the 1.5 hour door and a normal door or 45 minute fire-rated door or 1.5 hour rated door could be use for the door to exterior in the pic. Ok the fire rated doors are clarified. Good, JD. The reason for 3 hour rating if also for a reason if a person did pass out on the stairway because of smoke inhalation or whatever even though systems of venting the smoke out would be a part of design - it gives ample time and reasonable amount of protection so the person doesn't get burned alive. It is a concept mockup pic. Food for thought and the idea would be to get thoughts going and discussion. A house is a building.
 
Re: IRC 2009 Definitions

We can't even get self-closing house-to-garage doors...your going to get a 3-hour door??? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Oh wait, as brudgers will remind me, fires never start in the garage...nevermind... :oops:
 
Re: IRC 2009 Definitions

RickAstoria said:
The reason for 3 hour rating if also for a reason if a person did pass out on the stairway because of smoke inhalation or whatever even though systems of venting the smoke out would be a part of design - it gives ample time and reasonable amount of protection so the person doesn't get burned alive.
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The guy passes out....the door is still standing....until the walls around the door burn down, allowing the 3 hour brick door to fall on top of the guy, :shock: who used to be alive until :eek: ......BAM...SQAUSH...guts and blood. :cry: .....seeping out from under the brick door! :evil:

Well I guess we should've thought about a lighter door!
 
Re: IRC 2009 Definitions

TJacobs said:
We can't even get self-closing house-to-garage doors...your going to get a 3-hour door??? :lol: :lol: :lol: Oh wait, as brudgers will remind me, fires never start in the garage...nevermind... :oops:
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Fires can start anywhere. Just use the same stuff used in commercial buildings for self-closing. It already exists. A house is a building so treat it like one.

:D
 
Re: IRC 2009 Definitions

Mule said:
RickAstoria said:
The reason for 3 hour rating if also for a reason if a person did pass out on the stairway because of smoke inhalation or whatever even though systems of venting the smoke out would be a part of design - it gives ample time and reasonable amount of protection so the person doesn't get burned alive.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
The guy passes out....the door is still standing....until the walls around the door burn down, allowing the 3 hour brick door to fall on top of the guy, :shock: who used to be alive until :eek: ......BAM...SQAUSH...guts and blood. :cry: .....seeping out from under the brick door! :evil:

Well I guess we should've thought about a lighter door!

That is why the wall around the door is 3-hour rated. Of course there is a time limit on the material as with any material.

The rating was mainly for the wall. I wanted the door to be light be provide some degree of protection with a minimum of 3-hour rated landing and stairway. The door on the interior side would be maybe 1.5 hour rated. Maybe 3-hours. The wall would be a minimum of 3-hours but may even be 4-5 or even 6 - hour depending on thickness of wall.

Minimum of 3-hours was the base-line for the walls.
 
Re: IRC 2009 Definitions

Fires can start anywhere. But I doubt you'll find too many cases of a person being 'burned alive' in a structure fire. Most get burned dead. Charred remains are typically individuals who died of smoke inhalation, their bodies burned after death occurred.

Why is this thread getting morbid?
 
Re: IRC 2009 Definitions

Don't forget you can use (2) 1.5-hour doors in series... :mrgreen:
 
Re: IRC 2009 Definitions

Would you allow 3-hour fire-rated glazing :?: :roll:
 
Re: IRC 2009 Definitions

John Drobysh said:
Fires can start anywhere. But I doubt you'll find too many cases of a person being 'burned alive' in a structure fire. Most get burned dead. Charred remains are typically individuals who died of smoke inhalation, their bodies burned after death occurred. Why is this thread getting morbid?
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That depends on how fast the fire got to them but agree. Why should he be cremated for free?

Morbid.... yes. Then again, the person could have passed out because of heat & fatigue or you could have stumbled (even with legally compliant stairs) and is knocked out but not dead. We want firefighters to get to him and rescue him before him and the firefighters are cremated alive and be three or four charred bodies but 2-3 of them would have charred yellow & firefighter helmets and one is just an ordinary joe. The three firefighters would be medium done and the poor joe would be overcooked.
 
Re: IRC 2009 Definitions

TJ and Mule,

The last couple of pages of this thread are even better reading if you fill your coffee cup with bourbon. :lol: :lol: :lol:

I'm still cruising the web looking for a manufacturer of brick 3hour doors. :roll: :p
 
Re: IRC 2009 Definitions

TJacobs said:
Would you allow 3-hour fire-rated glazing :?: :roll:
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Depends. Is the glazing in direct line. The interior wall side of the stairway would not have glazing and the exterior wall side may have ordinary fire-rated glazing but the locality would have to not be an issue and the bottom of window be 112-120" above stair landing & stairs treads and be like a safety glass when it breaks.

Except escape windows but would only be on the exterior walls side.

The exterior wall part is redundancy and partly structural.
 
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