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is a fence required when a restaurant has outdoor dining against water per 2021

B

bellak

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is a fence required when a restaurant has outdoor dining against water per 2021
 
How far down is the water?

1015.2​

Guards shall be located along open-sided walking surfaces, including mezzanines, equipment platforms, aisles, stairs, ramps and landings that are located more than 30 inches (762 mm) measured vertically to the floor or grade below at any point within 36 inches (914 mm) horizontally to the edge of the open side. Guards shall be adequate in strength and attachment in accordance with Section 1607.9.
 
Also, what do you mean by "against" water? steveray's post says if you are 3' or more away from the dropoff, the guard is not required.
Keep in mind we are merely discussing code minimums. Your own insurance or loss prevention program may want to exceed code requirements.
 
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Is this an area that a boat would tie up at? Note the concrete walkway appears to be more than 3 feet from the drop off

Exception: Guards are not required for the following locations:

1. On the loading side of loading docks or piers.

1739315362460.png
 
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Welcome to the forum,

They say a picture or sketch is worth a thousand words and it would be helpful here as there are way to many conditions to provide an answer that is accurate.
  • 1st off the "code" does not require fence any place within the model code.
    • The IBC requires guards, as noted by Steveray in post #5,
    • The ISPSC requires barriers around swimming pools and Spas
    • There are requirements for enclosed/fenced in areas for daycare play areas
    • There are requirements that pertain to occupied roofs
    • And then there are engineering requirements for fence over 6ft too 7ft high pending on the local adoption of the code
    • But the codes does not specifically require a "Fence" per say
  • Near water is a very open question
    • Nature Formed: Ocean, bay, lake, river, pond, etc...
    • Man Made: lakes, ponds, pools, spas, streams and water features, etc...
    • As just one example in MT's Post #7
There are many other variables that apply to the model codes and then there are the way the AHJ adopted them.

A more specific question and description of why the ask will produce a lot more information possibly that would apply.

Regards - Tom
 
bellak said:
No boats
Click to expand...


mtlogcabin said:
Is this an area that a boat would tie up at? Note the concrete walkway appears to be more than 3 feet from the drop off

Exception: Guards are not required for the following locations:

1. On the loading side of loading docks or piers.

View attachment 15126
Click to expand...

tbz said:
Welcome to the forum,

They say a picture or sketch is worth a thousand words and it would be helpful here as there are way to many conditions to provide an answer that is accurate.
  • 1st off the "code" does not require fence any place within the model code.
    • The IBC requires guards, as noted by Steveray in post #5,
    • The ISPSC requires barriers around swimming pools and Spas
    • There are requirements for enclosed/fenced in areas for daycare play areas
    • There are requirements that pertain to occupied roofs
    • And then there are engineering requirements for fence over 6ft too 7ft high pending on the local adoption of the code
    • But the codes does not specifically require a "Fence" per say
  • Near water is a very open question
    • Nature Formed: Ocean, bay, lake, river, pond, etc...
    • Man Made: lakes, ponds, pools, spas, streams and water features, etc...
    • As just one example in MT's Post #7
There are many other variables that apply to the model codes and then there are the way the AHJ adopted them.

A more specific question and description of why the ask will produce a lot more information possibly that would apply.

Regards - Tom
Click to expand...

Adobe Acrobat

acrobat.adobe.com acrobat.adobe.com
 
IMHO the seating is to close and does no allow for a code compliant walkway without a guard

2018 IBC
1029.17 Assembly guards.
Guards adjacent to seating in a building, room or space used for assembly purposes shall be provided where required by Section 1015 and shall be constructed in accordance with Section 1015 except where provided in accordance with Sections 1029.17.1 through 1029.17.4. At bleachers, grandstands and folding and telescopic seating, guards must be provided where required by ICC 300 and Section 1029.17.1.

1029.17.1 Perimeter guards.
Perimeter guards shall be provided where the footboards or walking surface of seating facilities are more than 30 inches (762 mm) above the floor or grade below. Where the seatboards are adjacent to the perimeter, guard height shall be 42 inches (1067 mm) high minimum, measured from the seatboard. Where the seats are self-rising, guard height shall be 42 inches (1067 mm) high minimum, measured from the floor surface. Where there is an aisle between the seating and the perimeter, the guard height shall be measured in accordance with Section 1015.3.
 
Ok, now I see an immediate dropoff, like a pool deck or a fishing/boating pier.

Some questions to foster discussion:
1. Does the code require guardrails at swimming pools?
2. If the deck that is adjacent to the pool has furniture, does that make a difference on whether a guard is required by code?
3. Does the depth of the swimming pool make a difference on whether a guard is required?
4. Does the elevation difference between water surface vs. deck surface make a difference?
5. Does it make a difference as to whether the area (the water, the deck) is dedicated to recreational swimming vs. a boat dock vs. fishing platform vs. generic assembly use?

My own responses: 1 no; 2 no; 3 no; 4 and 5 maybe, see ADAS 1005.2 and IBC 1015.2 exc. 1.
 
Yikes said:
Ok, now I see an immediate dropoff, like a pool deck or a fishing/boating pier.

Some questions to foster discussion:
1. Does the code require guardrails at swimming pools?
2. If the deck that is adjacent to the pool has furniture, does that make a difference on whether a guard is required by code?
3. Does the depth of the swimming pool make a difference on whether a guard is required?
4. Does the elevation difference between water surface vs. deck surface make a difference?
5. Does it make a difference as to whether the area (the water, the deck) is dedicated to recreational swimming vs. a boat dock vs. fishing platform vs. generic assembly use?

My own responses: 1 no; 2 no; 3 no; 4 and 5 maybe, see ADAS 1005.2 and IBC 1015.2 exc. 1.
Click to expand...
Short answer…pool requires a barrier and this doesn’t have one because its not a pool…
 
steveray said:
Short answer…pool requires a barrier and this doesn’t have one because its not a pool…
Click to expand...
1739387246435.png

The OP didn't say it wasn't a pool. He only said "no boats".
And even if it was a pool, I can't tell from the photo that was provided how people get onto the wooden platform. Is it a small bridge. and does the bridge have a barrier that we can't see because objects are in the way?

Not enough info provided by the O.P.

Here in California, there is a requirement in 11B-247.1.2.6 for detectable warnings on "reflecting pools", but there are no other explicit requirements for guards adjacent to water.
steveray said:
How far down is the water?

1015.2​

Guards shall be located along open-sided walking surfaces, including mezzanines, equipment platforms, aisles, stairs, ramps and landings that are located more than 30 inches (762 mm) measured vertically to the floor or grade below at any point within 36 inches (914 mm) horizontally to the edge of the open side. Guards shall be adequate in strength and attachment in accordance with Section 1607.9.
Click to expand...

Again, referencing my own state's code, the CBC 202 definition of "grade" is specific to "ground, paving or sidewalk".
GRADE (Adjacent Ground Elevation). [DSA-AC & HCD 1-AC] The lowest point of elevation of the finished surface of the ground, paving or sidewalk within the area between the building and the property line or, when the property line is more than 5 feet (1524 mm) from the building, between the building and a line 5 feet (1524 mm) from the building. See Health and Safety Code Section 19955.3(d).
 
Invoke the "Tiger" code

104.1​

The building official is hereby authorized and directed to enforce the provisions of this code. The building official shall have the authority to render interpretations of this code and to adopt policies and procedures in order to clarify the application of its provisions. Such interpretations, policies and procedures shall be in compliance with the intent and purpose of this code.
 
Yikes said:
View attachment 15138

The OP didn't say it wasn't a pool. He only said "no boats".
And even if it was a pool, I can't tell from the photo that was provided how people get onto the wooden platform. Is it a small bridge. and does the bridge have a barrier that we can't see because objects are in the way?

Not enough info provided by the O.P.

Here in California, there is a requirement in 11B-247.1.2.6 for detectable warnings on "reflecting pools", but there are no other explicit requirements for guards adjacent to water.


Again, referencing my own state's code, the CBC 202 definition of "grade" is specific to "ground, paving or sidewalk".
GRADE (Adjacent Ground Elevation). [DSA-AC & HCD 1-AC] The lowest point of elevation of the finished surface of the ground, paving or sidewalk within the area between the building and the property line or, when the property line is more than 5 feet (1524 mm) from the building, between the building and a line 5 feet (1524 mm) from the building. See Health and Safety Code Section 19955.3(d).
Click to expand...
There is a grade below the water...How far down is it?
 
than
mtlogcabin said:
Invoke the "Tiger" code

104.1​

The building official is hereby authorized and directed to enforce the provisions of this code. The building official shall have the authority to render interpretations of this code and to adopt policies and procedures in order to clarify the application of its provisions. Such interpretations, policies and procedures shall be in compliance with the intent and purpose of this code.th
Click to expand...
 
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