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Is an electrical permit required?

Genduct said:
If you were replacing or upgrading the Main Breaker in same cabinet ( as opposed to the Transfer Switch) would you need to get a Permit?
BUT
It seems that when you move the device, someone needs to verify that the access Rules, working space etc needs to be verified ( i.e. Inspected and therefore a Permit is required because an Inspection is needed
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In Florida, changing a balast requires a permit so there was a permit required.
 
"In Florida, changing a balast requires a permit so there was a permit required."

Seriously, a ballast?

Hell, why not go for bulbs.......... :rolleyes:

Looking forward to retiring........
 
Genduct said:
WOW Is there that little Trust for a simple Repair OR Do they need the Permit $ Revenue?
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Permits have nothing to do with revenue as Building Departments are required by law to be financial separate from the municipal government and the revenue cannot be used by the general fund. Permit fees do not influence permit requirements. Read chapter 1 of the IBC, it is no different but how you decide to implement it based on personal opinion is another matter.
 
jar546 said:
Permits have nothing to do with revenue as Building Departments are required by law to be financial separate from the municipal government and the revenue cannot be used by the general fund. Permit fees do not influence permit requirements. Read chapter 1 of the IBC, it is no different but how you decide to implement it based on personal opinion is another matter.
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Exactly, separate budget means they need to fund themselves with Fees and Fines.

Also, local Municipalities are not likely to adopt Chap 1, they have local laws / Ordnances to guide them
 
jar546 said:
Permits have nothing to do with revenue as Building Departments are required by law to be financially separate from the municipal government and the revenue cannot be used by the general fund.
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I was assigned to a few cities and the Building Dept. was a cash cow. Excess funds found a home away from home. When it comes to money, bureaucrats ignore laws.
 
mtlogcabin said:
[A] 105.2 Work exempt from permit.
Electrical:

1. Repairs and maintenance: Minor repair work

IMHO
I would consider changing a ballast, receptacle or light switch a minor repair
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our language:

Electrical: Repairs and maintenance: Minor repair work, including the replacement of lamps or the connection of approved portable electrical equipment to approved permanently installed receptacles.

So when an electrical contractor wants to replace or bypass the ballasts in 500 2x4 lay in fixtures to convert to LED, someone is inspecting the work. A maintenance guy is never going to pull a permit to change a ballast. I believe the intent is for the bigger jobs where more can go wrong but then again, I've seen some real hack-jobs with simple jobs, including disconnecting all of the built in emergency lights in the lay in fixtures.
 
I think theres some merit to requiring a permit for replacing a ballast. In some cases the new ballast used for different light bulbs or LED switchouts would void any (UL) testing on an existing light fixture. We've had that discussion in our office before, "Is a permit is required to change a ballast? Another question would come up "What if I change out the whole troffer fixture, do I need a permit for that? Code would allow the replacement of a light switch or receptacle without a permit.
 
I did a project in my previous life, Building Maintenance, before getting into Building Inspection, where we did just that, replaced the old ballasts, with state of the art electronic ballasts (28 yrs ago) in a our municipal library. Probably 200 2X4 lay-in fixtures. Pretty simple, disconnect old, reconnect new. No different than changing out a receptacle outlet, or light switch. Sorry, I know you don't make the rules, but it seems a little excessive to require a permit for change outs. JMHO
 
fatboy said:
I did a project in my previous life, Building Maintenance, before getting into Building Inspection, where we did just that, replaced the old ballasts, with state of the art electronic ballasts (28 yrs ago) in a our municipal library. Probably 200 2X4 lay-in fixtures. Pretty simple, disconnect old, reconnect new. No different than changing out a receptacle outlet, or light switch. Sorry, I know you don't make the rules, but it seems a little excessive to require a permit for change outs. JMHO
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Me no make rules. Florida make rules. We follow rules. Me OK if no one pulls permit to change ballast. What me not know not hurt me.
 
jar546 said:
our language:

Electrical: Repairs and maintenance: Minor repair work, including the replacement of lamps or the connection of approved portable electrical equipment to approved permanently installed receptacles.

So when an electrical contractor wants to replace or bypass the ballasts in 500 2x4 lay in fixtures to convert to LED, someone is inspecting the work. A maintenance guy is never going to pull a permit to change a ballast. I believe the intent is for the bigger jobs where more can go wrong but then again, I've seen some real hack-jobs with simple jobs, including disconnecting all of the built in emergency lights in the lay in fixtures.
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"but then again, I've seen some real hack-jobs with simple jobs,"

There is no cure for STUPID! Problem is when the 90% suffer for the Turkeys!
More than 10% ?
 
Genduct said:
"but then again, I've seen some real hack-jobs with simple jobs,"

There is no cure for STUPID! Problem is when the 90% suffer for the Turkeys!
More than 10% ?
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On second thought, isn't that why the Electricians and Plumbers are supposed to be licensed as opposed to GC's who typically just need to be registered
 
Genduct said:
On second thought, isn't that why the Electricians and Plumbers are supposed to be licensed as opposed to GC's who typically just need to be registered
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Many states call it a general contracting license, not just a registration. Testing is required.
 
Pcinspector1 said:
I think theres some merit to requiring a permit for replacing a ballast. In some cases the new ballast used for different light bulbs or LED switchouts would void any (UL) testing on an existing light fixture. We've had that discussion in our office before, "Is a permit is required to change a ballast? Another question would come up "What if I change out the whole troffer fixture, do I need a permit for that? Code would allow the replacement of a light switch or receptacle without a permit.
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I am inclined to believe that the "Replacement Parts to upgrade an ext'g fixture would be tested and approved for that purpose. we can assume that the gage of the fixture sheet metal is min req'd (can't We?)
 
Genduct said:
On second thought, isn't that why the Electricians and Plumbers are supposed to be licensed as opposed to GC's who typically just need to be registered
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May need to be licensed in Philly but not in most of the rest of the state.
No limit for 3rd party inspection companies profit which is also most of the state.
 
Genduct said:
PA is more trusting or optimistic I suspect.
Electrical ad Plumbing have historically always been more demanding in the test / license
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And Colorado, kind of stupid, you have to have experience and pass a rigid test to do plumbing or electrical in a structure, but not to build the structure itself.......go figure! :rolleyes:
 
fatboy said:
And Colorado, kind of stupid, you have to have experience and pass a rigid test to do plumbing or electrical in a structure, but not to build the structure itself.......go figure! :rolleyes:
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Similar to WA. Electricians and plumbers have rigid licensing requirements; whereas, a GC only has to show proof of insurance to get their state license.

That said, the electricians and plumbers are somewhat behind this. They have strong unions, which have strong voices in the political arena. The electricians and plumber unions actually advocate for the many licensing requirements. This is because they have figured the game out. As a way to elevate their own industry, they make it more selective and weed out the novice types. By creating tough licensing, they keep the riff-raff out. In turn, it brings the industry up, raises wages, etc. Strong licensing requires a higher caliber employee. Higher caliber employees demand higher wages. Higher wages draws in better candidates.

By comparison, GC's are in a race to the bottom. They constantly undercut each other. Instead of building the industry up by working together, they infight and work to underbid the next guy by a dollar. Even if that means doing less than code compliant work.
 
www.dir.ca.gov

Division of Labor Standards Enforcement - Electrician certification program

www.dir.ca.gov www.dir.ca.gov

"Existing law requires that persons performing work as electrician under a C-10 licensed contractor be certified pursuant to certification standards established by the Division of Labor Standards Enforcement. “Electricians” is defined as all persons who engage in the connection of electrical devices for electrical contractors licensed pursuant to Section 7058 of the Business and Profession Code, specifically, contractors classified as electrical contractors in the Contractors State License Board Rules and Regulations [Labor Code § 108 (c)]."

That's the law in California. I am not aware of that law having been enforced...ever. I tried a few times and got nowhere. The state maintains a list of certified journeyman electricians that is viewable by the public. If the law were to be enforced, the electrical trade would come to a halt. The exam for the certification would have to be given in forty languages.

The wording "performing work as electrician under a C-10 licensed contractor" indicates that the licensed contractor is exempt from the certification requirement. The contractor is theoretically qualified to perform electrical work by virtue of the possession of a C-10 contractors license. A C-10 license is easy to obtain. So the license holder that the supposed certified journeyman electrician is working under can be, and quite often is, clueless.
 
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