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is it ethical

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From Section R104.9.1, `06 IRC - Used materials and equipment:

"Used materials, equipment and devices shall not be reused

unless approved by the building official."



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From the building departments ethics are not a consideration as to what is required. The focus is on compliance with the adopted regulations.
 
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In looking at the submitted pic., ...if it was not

disconnected when the new flex connector was

installed, then IMO, ...it is still an approved

valve for use......It does not appear to have

been disconnected !

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I understand the quote from R104.9.1 above; the key word is "reused", meaning that it was used once before; it stopped being used; then it started being used again for a second time. However, if it was never removed from the pipe that it was attached to 60 years ago, then "reused" is the wrong term. It is still continuing in its first use, NOT starting a second "re-use".

If it still works, and doesn't leak, why not keep it? I'll bet that old valve hasn't been used more than twice a year. Not long ago, keeping a perfectly good valve might've been called "cheap"; now it's lauded as "sustainable" green construction practice.

I'll tell you what I think IS unethical: those copper re-piping ads on the radio that claim you will now have fresh, clean water when you get rid of your "old rusty iron pipes"... and yet the copper re-pipe goes out to the street where it connects to the city's same old rusty ductile iron pipes.
 
Greetings,

Here in Tx most of us go by the adage, if it was legal when it was installed and it's still safe, then it's ok. So it's kind of a grey area. A fellow that covers for me when I'm not here retired from the Tx. Plumbing Board and he has guided me along that path. It also helps as he is an older gentleman that has a lot of historical reference too and knows what was legal and when. When you get into reusing (as in reinstalling) parts I think all bets are off.

BSSTG
 
Probably not........ :(

And I wouldn't be thrilled about it, but not much you can do unless you can display the valve was removed prior to a reuse.
 
Of course it is not "reused"; or you would have to replace all the piping in the house back to the meter every time you replaced a furnace. Oh, crap; some nutcase from ICC will see this and make a code change to require replacing all the gas piping when there is a change out. :)
 
Require it to be replaced with new valve.

I am sure the new furnace manufacturer would void their UL listing if attaching to that old valve.

It is a basic measure of life and safety.
 
If that valve is working, and in decent condition, I can't see any reason to replace it. Can't say that I've ever read an installation manual that said "use of old valve voids the listing of this appliance".
 
Pcinspector1 said:
Gas test enforcement?pc1
Click to expand...
No test required.

Here's something on tests that I recently became aware of.

1316.1.5 A piping system shall be tested as a complete unit or in sections. Under no circumstances shall a valve in a line be used as a bulkhead between gas in one (1) section of the piping system and test medium in an adjacent section unless two (2) valves are installed in series with a valved "tell tale" located between these valves. A valve shall not be subjected to the test pressure unless it can be determined that the valve, including the valve closing mechanism, is designed to safely withstand the pressure. [NFPA 54:8.1.1.5]
Click to expand...
I have seen a ball valve that is good for ??? pressure separating a live section from the test section many times. Especially when a floor furnace is removed and an attic unit is installed. I always have a discussion about them leaving a valve where it is concealed. I get the argument that it isn't concealed....it's exposed in the crawlspace. I don't buy that and I make them remove it.

So now I know that the practice is illegal. Not much I can do about that.

Back to the old gas valve.

1309.5.1.2 Used Materials. Pipe, fittings, valves, or other materials shall not be used again unless they are free of foreign materials and have been ascertained to be adequate for the service intended. [NFPA 54:5.6.1.2]
Click to expand...
The only thing that can be ascertained as to the adequacy of the old valve is that it was listed........in a Sears catalog.

It is a valve that has operated a few times in 60 years. It has a possibility that it relies on packing or lubricant for a positive seal. That's probably a good enough reason to replace the valve.
 
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If you are requiring a new shutoff valve when an appliance is changed out; your making up your own code. There is no requirement in the code to replace a valve when changing out an appliance. When you start making up your own personal rules and regulations; because you don't like something and can find no code section to back up your decision; you are part of the problem and not the solution. The biggest complaint contractors have is inspectors making up their own code requirements; and that ain't ethical. Uncle Bob
 
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Uncle Bob said:
If you are requiring a new shutoff valve when an appliance is changed out; your making up your own code. There is no requirement in the code to replace a valve when changing out an appliance. When you start making up your own personal rules and regulations; because you don't like something and can find no code section to back up your decision; you are part of the problem and not the solution. The biggest complaint contractors have is inspectors making up their own code requirements; and that ain't ethical. Uncle Bob
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That's a big if you got there, Bob.

Other people here have little ifs. "If the valve was removed it can't be reinstalled." "If the valve came from somewhere else, it can't be used." Where's any of that in a code?

How about if the valve was the type that requires a wrench to operate. Ya that's the ticket. A 60year old valve with no handle. We've all seen them. Shirley I make them replace those. And why? Well because the code says that a tool can't be required to operate a valve. What's up with that? The valve was legal when it was installed. Would you insist that the valve is still legal? If not, how can I invoke a code for a handle but I am barred from using the rest of the code?

I gave you the code. That code is all that I need to require a new valve.

If that is, I get a mind to do so.

Come to think of it, I could compromise and let them keep that 60 year old valve. That's a sign of a seasoned inspector. You keep the valve and I keep the furnace. When you give me the new valve, I'll give you the new furnace. We both win. What could be more fair than that? Talk about being a part of the solution....Hell I did all of the heavy thinking for them too.
 
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If there was no requirement for a listed valve 60 years ago then you can't require it to meet today's listing requirements. personally I would just require a soap or sniff test on it in the open and closed positions and that it freely operated by hand. However if you want to require a new one I believe the IFGC gives you that authority under 102.9 Requirements not covered by code.

Requirements necessary for the strength, stability or proper operation of an existing or proposed installation, or for the public safety, health and general welfare, not specifically covered by this code, shall be determined by the code official .
 
ICE, its your call, sniff, soap, spit it's all the same!

But, no duct tape allowed!

pc1
 
As long as the valve is good and does not leak it is an existing part of the sysstem and can remain in service. The whole purpose of a valve at the appliance is to allow you to shut the gas off to repair or replace the appliance without having to shut down the gas to the whole building.
 
fatboy said:
:popcorn......................................
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Why is it always about food with you....oh ya it's ......
 
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ICE, you asked for input and you don't like what you got from UB? Then don't ask what other people think. No need for a tirade, now.
 
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