tmurray
SAWHORSE
That is a lot or people who don't know how to do their job properly and a whole lot of not-my-jobism.
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- Thread starter Inspector Gadget
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Inspector Gadget
REGISTERED
14 Sprinkler heads exposed to paint/drywall compound
4 sprinkler heads with visible holes around the entry
Exit stairs are 1.22m, and only have one handrail - even though the plans called for two.
Buncha other things. On the plus side, all the doors were NFPA80, and except for one suite with a missing threshold, met clearance and closure/latching requirements. Mainly because I'd explicitly told the owners (who are very receptive) what I'd be testing.
I've written up this job for electrical boxes in the shaft so many times I can almost recite 3.4.4.4(1)(b) in my sleep.
mtlogcabin
SAWHORSE
What where they thinking? They installed Simpson SDWC 15600 on all the other trusses.
Inspector Gadget
REGISTERED
<sigh>
So I have this job - a fairly simple one. Change ventilation in a public building.
Background
1) Final inspection shows that they ran the duct through a fire separation without a damper.
2) Followup shows they installed a damper, but there's a 3" hole around the damper, with no flanges.
Today, I receive images that they've installed fire-rated drywall and flanges around the damper.....
... except they used a grinder to cut the flange to run conduit past the flange. No fire stopping, either.
<sigh>
So I have this job - a fairly simple one. Change ventilation in a public building.
Background
1) Final inspection shows that they ran the duct through a fire separation without a damper.
2) Followup shows they installed a damper, but there's a 3" hole around the damper, with no flanges.
Today, I receive images that they've installed fire-rated drywall and flanges around the damper.....
... except they used a grinder to cut the flange to run conduit past the flange. No fire stopping, either.
<sigh>
steveray
SAWHORSE
There typically isn’t any intumescent caulk with a damper…
Yankee Chronicler
REGISTERED
"<sigh>" indeed.
What you describe is fairly typical. About ten years ago (maybe 12?) this state built a new community college building in the city near me. I was on a project site with one of the state building inspectors. He said his team found over 300 improperly installed fire dampers throughout the building.
We had one a couple of years ago where the HVAC contractor installed the fire damper 3 feet away from the rated wall it was supposed to protect. He said he had no idea the damper had to align with the wall.
steveray
SAWHORSE
They have some out of plane ones…maybe 18”…
Inspector Gadget
REGISTERED
We had a "20-year veteran" working on our building. No idea where the dampers were supposed to go. Then got the wrong ones ("whaddya mean.. this is a horizontal duct, and I got a horizontal damper .... what's wrong with you fellers?."
20-year veteran.
I am damn sure we weren't the first non-residential building he'd worked on. This should cause someone some concerns.
Inspector Gadget
REGISTERED
Today, I had one of my *favourite* conversations.
Up here in the frozen north, we have a program aimed at providing national mobility to certain trades. It's called "red seal," and basically means "I'm know the regulations, and can work anywhere in the country where a licence is required."
Our jurisdiction has no licencing for contractors. Yet several times a year, someone I've never met tells me, "I'm a red seal carpenter," which means "I know Code, dude."
Had that happen today. Two minutes on the site for a spot inspection, guy tells me "I'm a red seal carpenter,"
This guy had used wood screws for structural framing.
Up here in the frozen north, we have a program aimed at providing national mobility to certain trades. It's called "red seal," and basically means "I'm know the regulations, and can work anywhere in the country where a licence is required."
Our jurisdiction has no licencing for contractors. Yet several times a year, someone I've never met tells me, "I'm a red seal carpenter," which means "I know Code, dude."
Had that happen today. Two minutes on the site for a spot inspection, guy tells me "I'm a red seal carpenter,"
This guy had used wood screws for structural framing.
steveray
SAWHORSE
Better than drywall screws maybe....
klarenbeek
REGISTERED
That code section for how to install dampers is waaayyyy to complicated.
IMC 607.2 Installation. Fire dampers, smoke dampers, combination fire/smoke dampers, and ceiling radiation dampers located within air distribution and smoke control systems shall be installed in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions, the dampers' listing, and sections 607.2.1 through 607.2.3.
If all else fails, follow the instructions.
Sifu
SAWHORSE
- Joined
- Sep 3, 2011
- Messages
- 3,374
The last few things I bought and put together had instructions. The instructions didn't have any words. Just pictures. I liked them. What does that say about the instructions? About me? (rhetorical, I know what it says)If all else fails, follow the instructions.
Inspector Gadget
REGISTERED
For us, the language is like this:That code section for how to install dampers is waaayyyy to complicated.
IMC 607.2 Installation. Fire dampers, smoke dampers, combination fire/smoke dampers, and ceiling radiation dampers located within air distribution and smoke control systems shall be installed in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions, the dampers' listing, and sections 607.2.1 through 607.2.3.
If all else fails, follow the instructions.
Except as otherwise specified in this Part, every door, fire damper, window assembly or glass block used as a closure in a required fire separation shall be installed
in conformance with NFPA 80, “Fire Doors and Other Opening Protectives.” (See Note A-3.1.8.1.(2).)
And NFPA 80 is real simple: 19.2.1.5 Mounting Method. The damper shall be installed in the orientation and airflow direction as indicated on the damper.
mtlogcabin
SAWHORSE
That's what this guy did
SMACNA is a good source for how to install dampers without voiding the listing
klarenbeek
REGISTERED
The thing is the instructions are part of the damper's listing and if they aren't followed it voids the listing. They will say where the damper goes in relation to the assembly, what types of assembly it can be installed in, how to frame the opening in the assembly, and how to attach the damper to the assembly. Unless it listed that way, a damper installed outside of the wall is not installed correctly and in reality a waste of money. Its not protecting anything.
Inspector Gadget
REGISTERED
You're assuming contractors read something?
Let me summarize a discussion I just had, on drip cap installation.
Contractor: “Damn, these new codes are gonna be a pain ….”
Me: “Uh. That was new for then 2005 Code. So it’s been required for 20 years …..”
Contractor: "But I’ve installed windows without drip caps for 20 years….."
Me: "Well, now you will install windows with drip caps."
Contractor: “Why didn’t someone tell me before I went and did this work?”
Me: “We’ve been enforcing this for years. And even if we weren't, it’s outlined in both a standard and the code, and it’s outlined in manufacturer’s installation instructions.”
Contractor: “Yeah, but nobody told ME….”
Me: “Don’t you read the installation instructions?”
Contractor: “But I’ve never had to do this before….”
Me: “You’ve had to do this for 20 years…. And now you know.”
Contractor: “But nobody told me.”
Me: “Ya got a copy of the Code at home, or on your computer?”
Contractor: “Uhhh…. Maybe…. but who’s got time to read that?”
Me: “Well, this may come as a surprise, but …. Me?”
tmurray
SAWHORSE
Gotta love that external locus of control.
That is an assumption that does not always hold true in the wide world of Listed products. I don’t have firsthand experience with dampers however, I have been exposed to how some NRTLs fail to perform when it comes to installation instructions.
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The contractor I used to work for brought some of us in for training about once a month, with the intent of making us into superintendents running jobs, which all of us eventually did. He told us that the code book is "like, this thick", that nobody has time to read it, and that "you don't make money reading the book". I never saw the book until I became an inspector. This training, sparse though it was, is much better than most will get in our industry.
We were taught to take the bull by the horns and get creative in the field - do whatever it takes to make it work. So we did. You all don't have to imagine what young men barely starting their third decade will do when they improvise, I am sure you see it every day. The photos would be worthy to post on this thread.
Looking back, I don't think anything I did will kill anyone... hopefully. The bad part is that no one caught me.
It's true. You don't make money reading the book. But when I show up and see that you haven't read the book... that can be a very expensive. It's the only way a young man will be able to learn, because they won't be taught. It's not the making money, it's the saving.
We were taught to take the bull by the horns and get creative in the field - do whatever it takes to make it work. So we did. You all don't have to imagine what young men barely starting their third decade will do when they improvise, I am sure you see it every day. The photos would be worthy to post on this thread.
Looking back, I don't think anything I did will kill anyone... hopefully. The bad part is that no one caught me.
It's true. You don't make money reading the book. But when I show up and see that you haven't read the book... that can be a very expensive. It's the only way a young man will be able to learn, because they won't be taught. It's not the making money, it's the saving.
Inspector Gadget
REGISTERED
Inspector G,
You should have told him!
Your constipated with knowledge.....let it go...grasshopper!
I have been called many things in my life. "Constipated with knowledge" is certainly .... a first.
steveray
SAWHORSE
Education is expensive.....
tmurray
SAWHORSE
and there is no teacher like failure.