• Welcome to the new and improved Building Code Forum. We appreciate you being here and hope that you are getting the information that you need concerning all codes of the building trades. This is a free forum to the public due to the generosity of the Sawhorses, Corporate Supporters and Supporters who have upgraded their accounts. If you would like to have improved access to the forum please upgrade to Sawhorse by first logging in then clicking here: Upgrades

Nail plates

ICE

ICE

Oh Well
Joined
Jun 23, 2011
Messages
12,918
Location
California
312.9 Steel Nail Plates. Plastic and copper piping penetrating framing members to within 1 inch of the exposed framing shall be protected by steel nail plates not less than No. 18 gauge in thickness. The steel nail plate shall extend along the framing member not less than 1-1⁄2 inches beyond the outside diameter of the pipe or tubing.


On a recent inspection I noted that the nail plates did not extend 1-1/2" beyond the pipe. This was a tract inspection and the superintendent said that the usual inspector had told him about that but the city wasn't enforcing that code because there was a question if the plate was required to stick up in the attic space. So they assumed that the 1-1/2" was on the vertical and not the horizontal. I pointed out that the code says. The steel nail plate shall extend along the framing member"

My take on it is that the plate shall extend horizontally however, I have encountered the vertical interpretation many times.

I do have a question. "not less than 1-1⁄2 inches beyond the outside diameter of the pipe or tubing." I have understood that to mean that the plate shall extend 1-1/2" past each side of a pipe. For example a 3" pipe would require no less than a 6-1/2" plate. Some have decided that the plate only needs to be 1-1/2" larger than the OD of the pipe.

What say you?





20210526_094426.jpg


20210526_094055.jpg


IMG_2552.JPG
 
Last edited:
SCBO1 said:
2021 IRC P2603.2.1 (2-inches above the top plate & sole plate)
Click to expand...
Thanks for that information. California didn't adopt the MEP portions of the IRC.

I can see the logic of the 2" above the sole plate in case of a baseboard nail hitting it but 2" above the top plate escapes me. Any idea about that?
 
ICE said:
It is there for braced wall hardware. HD? The foam was a nice touch. Note that the honking notches still didn't get the pipe all the way into the wall.
Click to expand...
So, the braced frame is compromised. I would require the Engineer of record to sign it off.
 
We call those wider guards, FHA plates, I believe that federal program required them!
 
SCBO1 said:
We call those wider guards, FHA plates, I believe that federal program required them!
Click to expand...
I take it that your Plumbing and Residential codes do not require FHA plates but do require the 2" above the plate lines.
 
That is a very common code violation that a plumber does to vent the kitchen sink with so many studs and the layering it's hard to get a shoe installed. We are seeing more and more plumbers trying to install an AAV in the kitchen sink.
 
CPC 312.9 Steel Nail Plates
Plastic and copper or copper alloy piping penetrating framing members to within 1 inch (25.4 mm) of the exposed framing shall be protected by steel nail plates not less than No. 18 gauge in thickness. The steel nail plate shall extend along the framing member not less than 1-1/2 inches beyond the outside diameter of the pipe or tubing.
Exception: See Section 1210.4.3.

They make larger plates.
It does not look like those are legit plates. Simpsons are 1.5 inches wide, those shown do not look like they areas wide as the studs?nail plate.JPGmet plate.png
 
Last edited:
For the California crowd how about:

I do have a question. "not less than 1-1⁄2 inches beyond the outside diameter of the pipe or tubing." I have understood that to mean that the plate shall extend 1-1/2" past each side of a pipe. For example a 3" pipe would require no less than a 6.5" plate. Some have decided that the plate only needs to be 1-1/2" larger than the OD of the pipe.
 
Last edited:
ICE said:
I take it that your Plumbing and Residential codes do not require FHA plates but do require the 2" above the plate lines.
Click to expand...
We just enforce the IRC. The builder and his bank or loan department would pick up the FHA requirements but yes the stud guard should extend past the plates per code. Very seldom do we see anything other than the 1-1/2 wide plates.

I was having problems with the plumbers using FHA plates to tie a top plate together when a 3-inch pipe is used, we require the plate straps here with the 8 nails. Boy do they squeal.
 
We go 2" up and down at bottom (baseboard) and top (crown) plates (respectively) in ICC land...nothing to the sides, so it would seem 3/4" each side would be adequate....
 
See 2021 IRC, R602.6.1 and Figure R602.6.1 shows top plate strap required. Yes, I know your using the CPC.
 
ICE said:
But 0" at the sides is legal?
Click to expand...

P2603.2.1 Protection Against Physical Damage​

Diagram
In concealed locations, where piping, other than cast-iron or galvanized steel, is installed through holes or notches in studs, joists, rafters or similar members less than 1-1/4 inches (31.8 mm) from the nearest edge of the member, the pipe shall be protected by steel shield plates. Such shield plates shall have a thickness of not less than 0.0575 inch (1.463 mm) (No. 16 Gage). Such plates shall cover the area of the pipe where the member is notched or bored, and shall extend not less than 2 inches (51 mm) above sole plates and below top plates.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ICE
Your code is different than California code. There is also a difference in the depth from the face of the framing where as yours is 1.25" and California is 1". For many years the protection was only required over the pipe and that seemed to work just fine. But live and learn.
 
M1308.2.1 Piping through bored holes or notches.
Where piping is installed through holes or notches in framing members and is located less than 1-1/2 inches (38 mm) from the framing member face to which wall, ceiling or floor membranes will be attached, the pipe shall be protected by shield plates that cover the width of the pipe and the framing member and that extend 2 inches (51 mm) to each side of the framing member. Where the framing member that the piping passes through is a bottom plate, bottom track, top plate or top track, the shield plates shall cover the framing member and extend 2 inches (51 mm) above the bottom framing member and 2 inches (51 mm) below the top framing member.

M1308.2.2 Piping in other locations.
Where piping is located within a framing member and is less than 1-1/2 inches (38 mm) from the framing member face to which wall, ceiling or floor membranes will be attached, the piping shall be protected by shield plates that cover the width and length of the piping. Where piping is located outside of a framing member and is located less than 1-1/2 inches (38 mm) from the nearest edge of the face of the framing member to which the membrane will be attached, the piping shall be protected by shield plates that cover the width and length of the piping.

M1308.2.3 Shield plates.
Shield plates shall be of steel material having a thickness of not less than 0.0575 inch (1.463 mm) (No. 16 gage).

Gas piping is the same language as the IMC.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
For some reason it seldom occurs to me to consult the Mechanical Code for plumbing corrections but it's there.

CMC 316.6 Steel Nail Plates. Plastic piping or tubing, copper or copper alloy piping or tubing, and ducts penetrating framing members to within 1 inch of the exposed framing shall be protected by steel nail plates not less than No. 18 gauge in thickness. The steel nail plate shall extend along the framing member not less than 1-1⁄2 inches beyond the outside diameter of the pipe or tubing.
 
Each trade seems to be a little different. This should be corrected. Codes should follow the KISS method whenever possible. I would note that in the 2018 codes they all say above the bottom plate and below the top plate. Put it in one place, for all trades and compliance will get better, as will inspection.
 
mark handler said:
So, the braced frame is compromised. I would require the Engineer of record to sign it off.
Click to expand...
Me too. The result is bigger straps. I don't recall the outcome of the example in the picture but it is not unusual to discover that the amount of wall bracing is overkill and the damage to one 4"x4" is inconsequential.
 
ICE said:
Me too. The result is bigger straps. I don't recall the outcome of the example in the picture but it is not unusual to discover that the amount of wall bracing is overkill and the damage to one 4"x4" is inconsequential.
Click to expand...
Whether it is or is not inconsequential, should be the Licensed Structural Designer of Record's call, not the inspector.
Have the DoR sign it off or provide a fix. Could be as simple as a Simpson "shoe".

1692886372085.png
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top