Number of Operations for ACCESS

[LGreene]

Did they send this to you along with a correction notice, or did you ask the question? If they provided this reference as a reply to your question, move on as you meet these conditions.

Basically, I was contacted after the AHJ said that the installed locks are not compliant with the ADA because of the number of operations required to unlock the door from the outside. There was no mention of the size/shape of the thumbturn, difficulty holding the credential, etc. I have not spoken with the AHJ directly, and probably won't have the opportunity to. I'm just trying to provide the relevant information to those who are directly involved, and to make sure that I haven't been missing something with regard to the number of operations to unlock the door.

 

[classicT]

Basically, I was contacted after the AHJ said that the installed locks are not compliant with the ADA because of the number of operations required to unlock the door from the outside. There was no mention of the size/shape of the thumbturn, difficulty holding the credential, etc. I have not spoken with the AHJ directly, and probably won't have the opportunity to. I'm just trying to provide the relevant information to those who are directly involved, and to make sure that I haven't been missing something with regard to the number of operations to unlock the door.

You need to speak with them directly. Ask them what is the specific violation that has occurred and wherein you may find the code reference.

As a code official, as long as you are polite, I wouldn't have any hesitation.

 

[cda]

Basically, I was contacted after the AHJ said that the installed locks are not compliant with the ADA because of the number of operations required to unlock the door from the outside. There was no mention of the size/shape of the thumbturn, difficulty holding the credential, etc. I have not spoken with the AHJ directly, and probably won't have the opportunity to. I'm just trying to provide the relevant information to those who are directly involved, and to make sure that I haven't been missing something with regard to the number of operations to unlock the door.

Not an ada person, but I could see an offer to modify a tenants unit, if needed, but not all of them.

 

[LGreene]

Not an ada person, but I could see an offer to modify a tenants unit, if needed, but not all of them.

That is Plan B, but I'd prefer to remove any doubt about the code-compliance of the product.

 

[cda]

Not near the commentary, will check to see if it says anything tommorow.

Guess do an informal, than formal appeal if needed.

 

[tmurray]

You need to speak with them directly. Ask them what is the specific violation that has occurred and wherein you may find the code reference.

As a code official, as long as you are polite, I wouldn't have any hesitation.

I'm not sure that this will work in this case. It looks to be a bad call that the official is doubling down on. We all make bad calls, but you generally see someone either back down or double down on them. It looks like they are doubling down in this situation. I'd still talk with them and hold out hope that they see the error of their interpretation, but wouldn't hold my breath.

 

[classicT]

I'm not sure that this will work in this case. It looks to be a bad call that the official is doubling down on. We all make bad calls, but you generally see someone either back down or double down on them. It looks like they are doubling down in this situation. I'd still talk with them and hold out hope that they see the error of their interpretation, but wouldn't hold my breath.

Absolutely agree. To me it sounds more like an inspector wrote a correction notice not sure of the exact code verbiage and the builder is being very apprehensive about challenging the initial interpretation.

 

[cda]

Will look at our most recent apartment,

But in the old days, sometimes you had to

unlock the keyed deadbolt

than unlock the keyed door handle

Not much difference than your set up

 

[TheCommish]

I can not think of a code section that regulates the number of actions to open a door. Accessibility in Ma requires a number of units in a motel or apartment buidlng be accessible. Which brings up the question of tight pinching or grasping, now the keycard that I use where they keep the light on is in my wallet, needs to be removed from the wallet an inserted in the slot the requires tight pinching.

I am waiting for the chip implant that unlocks all my doors, logs me on to my computers, has my medical information and all my money available so I can get rid of my wallet, keys, and passwords, this will solve a bunch of problems.

 

[LGreene]

I can not think of a code section that regulates the number of actions to open a door. Accessibility in Ma requires a number of units in a motel or apartment buidlng be accessible. Which brings up the question of tight pinching or grasping, now the keycard that I use where they keep the light on is in my wallet, needs to be removed from the wallet an inserted in the slot the requires tight pinching.

I am waiting for the chip implant that unlocks all my doors, logs me on to my computers, has my medical information and all my money available so I can get rid of my wallet, keys, and passwords, this will solve a bunch of problems.

Hi Commish -

The access-control chip implant already exists, if you're willing to be a test subject. You may need multiple chips for now because not all of the systems are integrated.

For the lock in question, the fob can be on a lanyard or keychain so it's not difficult for someone to get to it.

- Lori

 

[JBI]

I also agree with tmurray, either provide a code section that prohibits/limits it, or it is compliant.
As a code official, if I told someone 'it' doesn't comply I always provided a code section.
As an instructor, that's how I teach my students...

 

[cda]

I looked at two of our recent apartments. Max it would take two operations to open the door.

 

[TheCommish]

Lori, I agree the fob could be on a lanyard, but many of the access systems are keycard and slots, not proximity which are becoming more popular.

I would be a test subject if the integrator could use a single standard

 

[LGreene]

Lori, I agree the fob could be on a lanyard, but many of the access systems are keycard and slots, not proximity which are becoming more popular.

I would be a test subject if the integrator could use a single standard

I think we will continue to see an increase in proximity readers, and the credentials that require insertion will go away eventually. The locks on the project in question have proximity readers.

I'll let you know if I hear of a good chip-testing opportunity for you.

 

[LGreene]

View attachment 2686

I looked at two of our recent apartments. Max it would take two operations to open the door.

In some cases the lever handle on a residential lock will also require key operation - it depends on the function of the lock. The lock in the photo only requires 2 operations, but user is required to grasp the key, insert it, turn it, remove it (sometimes needing to turn it partway back before removing it), and then turn the lever. While technically the ADA doesn't address keys because they are not considered an operable part of the lock, it is much more difficult for people with certain types of disabilities to grasp, insert, and turn a key, then turn the lever vs. presenting a proximity credential, pushing the thumbturn to retract the bolt, and then turning the lever.

The bottom line is that I talked to everyone I could think of, including the DOJ, HUD, DHHS, ICC, NDRN, a well-known ADA consultant, and a bunch of AHJs. There is nothing in the model codes, ADA standards, or A117.1 that limits the number of operations to unlock the door from the outside.

 

[steveray]

My new apartments have a fob then turn entry system.....Approved by me...

 

[LGreene]

Just a quick update on this...the US Access Board responded that there was no limit (within reason) to the number of operations for access, which was the same answer that I received from Fair Housing First (supported by HUD), the ADA Network (supported by DHHS), the ADA info line, the ICC (regarding A117.1), and several other organizations. We're waiting to hear back from the AHJ.

Thanks to everyone for sharing your insight!