1. Welcome to the new and improved Building Code Forum. We appreciate you being here and hope that you are getting the information that you need concerning all codes of the building trades. This is a free forum to the public due to the generosity of the Sawhorses, Corporate Supporters and Supporters who have upgraded their accounts. If you would like to have improved access to the forum please upgrade to Sawhorse by clicking here: Upgrades
    Dismiss Notice

NYC CRACK DOWN

Discussion in 'Industry News' started by mark handler, Nov 24, 2019.

  1. Ty J.

    Ty J. Sawhorse

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2017
    Messages:
    1,140
    Likes Received:
    415
    Good business skills and you would of back-charged the company providing and servicing the shack.
     
    jar546 likes this.
  2. conarb

    conarb Registered User

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2009
    Messages:
    3,508
    Likes Received:
    254
    I did.

    The one OSHA requirement that I've refused to obey is the prohibition against walking plates, walking plates is a fundamental carpentry skill, if you can't walk plates you shouldn't be on a jobsite
     
    Ty J. likes this.
  3. ICE

    ICE Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2011
    Messages:
    8,870
    Likes Received:
    1,097
    That is ridiculous. I know top notch, fat carpenters that would never walk plate. Walking plate is a fundamental skill for the circus.
     
    #23 ICE, Nov 25, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2019
    ADAguy likes this.
  4. ICE

    ICE Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2011
    Messages:
    8,870
    Likes Received:
    1,097
    I've intervened a few dozen times for good reason. There was never a suspicion that there might be some dangerous thing happening. I've had workmen thank me for stopping what was going down. For that you call me a vigilante?
     
    #24 ICE, Nov 25, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2019
  5. JCraver

    JCraver Sawhorse

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2014
    Messages:
    705
    Likes Received:
    262
    Ch. 33 of the IBC is the extent of my enforcement capabilities. If you're doing something really dumb while I'm there I'll probably tell you it's dumb, but I'm not going to write it down on an inspection report. If it's dumb enough someone is going to die if you continue to do it, then I'm happy enough to call in the State guys and let them have you.
     
  6. mark handler

    mark handler Sawhorse

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2009
    Messages:
    10,658
    Likes Received:
    902
    You do not need to document it, but if you see something that will prevent and injury or death, Something called morals kick in and you should tell the Forman or Contractor. You do not need to report them to OSHA, but you need to live with it.
     
    ADAguy likes this.
  7. JCraver

    JCraver Sawhorse

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2014
    Messages:
    705
    Likes Received:
    262
    Right. That's why I said I'm happy to call the State osha guys if there's something on the job that's gonna' kill somebody. I deal with foreman and/or pm's when I'm doing inspections, so that's who I'm telling "that's stupid" if I see something that is.

    I wasn't arguing...
     
  8. conarb

    conarb Registered User

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2009
    Messages:
    3,508
    Likes Received:
    254
    Guess you don't know, maybe that's why OSHA requires it's inspectors to present certificates at all OSHA inspections.

    If you guys are running out of work and looking for more how about taking over Special Inspector duties instead of OSHA?
     
  9. ADAguy

    ADAguy Registered User

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2013
    Messages:
    4,537
    Likes Received:
    433
  10. tmurray

    tmurray Registered User

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2011
    Messages:
    1,785
    Likes Received:
    484
    I don't enforce workplace health and safety regulations, but I definitely do by proxy.

    If I see what I feel is an unsafe construction site, I fail the inspection. It's failed, not because you didn't follow the applicable laws, but because I cannot enter your site to complete the inspection. You need my approval to proceed to the next phase of construction, so in order to get that approval, you are going to make your site safe.

    Also, if I have gotten to the point where I am refusing to go on site, you can bet I am calling our workplace health and safety inspector.

    Safety is everyone's responsibility. I cannot in good conscience turn a blind eye to obvious safety violations. If you see something and do nothing, you bear partial responsibility for the injury or death. This has been clearly established in our legislation and upheld by courts.
     
  11. conarb

    conarb Registered User

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2009
    Messages:
    3,508
    Likes Received:
    254
    You sure like to tell other people what to do.
     
  12. Ty J.

    Ty J. Sawhorse

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2017
    Messages:
    1,140
    Likes Received:
    415
    You sure like to tell other people how to do their job.
     
  13. tmurray

    tmurray Registered User

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2011
    Messages:
    1,785
    Likes Received:
    484
    You seem upset that I am exercising my rights.
     
  14. Keystone

    Keystone Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2010
    Messages:
    991
    Likes Received:
    132
    Not in agreement with surprise inspections, IMO at that point it’s intent is to seek violations at all costs creating a Police State!

    If a site has a legitimate written and signed complaint or while the building inspector or other official is onsite and observed what he/she believes to be a safety issue and fills out a complaint form then the safety inspection should occur.
     
  15. mark handler

    mark handler Sawhorse

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2009
    Messages:
    10,658
    Likes Received:
    902
    So there should not "roving" Police patrols in your neighborhood, or the use of radar on highways?
     
  16. Ty J.

    Ty J. Sawhorse

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2017
    Messages:
    1,140
    Likes Received:
    415
    Ok... hang on. Are you familiar with what a 'police state' is?

    po·lice state
    /pəˈlēs ˈstāt/
    noun
    a totalitarian state controlled by a political police force that secretly supervises the citizens' activities.

    Key words therein are 'totalitarian', 'political', and 'secretly'. Law enforcement officers do not secretly perform radar speed checks (we all know they are out there); similarly, contractors know that inspectors look for code violations.

    Building officials and inspectors are granted authority through police doctrine and are governed by the same principles. Principles such as probable cause, plain view doctrine, legal search and seizure, etc. This is why all inspectors should have to take the legal module for the CBO exams.

    I do agree that surprise inspections are malicious and will create a toxic working relationship; I however disagree that it creates a police state. If their is probable cause, be friendly and get invited onto the site (not that hard) or get a search warrant (via a judge).
     
  17. Keystone

    Keystone Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2010
    Messages:
    991
    Likes Received:
    132
    These are not roving patrols, they are individuals tasked with finding violations.
    Roving patrols for the most part make a presence and do not have an identified objective.

    Radar use on highways, as a matter of fact no I prefer to live without them as that isn’t exactly as I described above, individual sections tasked with finding violations.

    SO it’s safe to assume you never go above the posted speed limit. If you do as I suspect the vast majority does then have you considered turning yourself in for speeding OR how about speed detecting monitor in which you’re vehicle self reports your excessive speed for the appropriate ticket and associated license points. I feel you haven’t turned yourself in for speeding then why, are you above the law?
     
  18. Keystone

    Keystone Registered User

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2010
    Messages:
    991
    Likes Received:
    132
    I could and should consider a different descriptive fact however if any one of us think that this at some point would not be used in a malicious manner then the real misstatement and joke for that matter is on them.
     
  19. mark handler

    mark handler Sawhorse

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2009
    Messages:
    10,658
    Likes Received:
    902
    So with that live of thought "don't violate OSHA or the Building Codes" ...."as a matter of fact"... Just Saying....
     
  20. conarb

    conarb Registered User

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2009
    Messages:
    3,508
    Likes Received:
    254
    What should be the punishment for a civil servant exceeding his authority? The building code is tyranny, nobody gets to vote for it other than civil servants, the creation of the ICC took freedom out of the codes and created a monster that is doing nothing but rubber stamping a tyrannical government's policies (just look at Energy and Green codes). Did any of the criminals here ever get punished for the fire sprinkler frauds?
     

Share This Page