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NYC residence "convenience stair"

Discussion in 'Residential Building Codes' started by griffino, Jun 28, 2020.

  1. griffino

    griffino Registered User

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    I have a client who lives in a 12 story building in NYC. They purchased the unit below theirs and want to cut a hole and combine the two units with a new stair. We will need to comply with the 1968 Building Code of the City of New York https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/buildings/building_code/1968_building_code_v1.pdf.

    My question is whether this stair would need to comply with all the requirements of an Interior Stair under 27-375.

    The definition of "Interior Stair" is "A stair within a building, that serves as a required exit". I do not believe this stair serves as a required exit, as we are not changing the means of egress from each individual floor.

    I see another definition for an "Access Stair - A stair between two floors which does not serve as a required exit." This seems more applicable here, but I don't see access stair requirements outlined elsewhere in the code. I only find that they can be unenclosed and a Spiral Stair can be used as an Access Stair.

    Thanks for the help and if anyone has questions please let me know.
     
  2. cda

    cda Sawhorse

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    Sounds like an access stair.

    But, when are they going to update to a newer code?? 1968???

    Seems like present code would apply?

    Seems like high rise codes might kick in??

    Seems like there may be a problem opening a floor in a high rise?


    Seems like set down with the building Dept, before going to far down the avenue!!
     
  3. griffino

    griffino Registered User

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    In NYC you have the option to use the older code for certain aspects of older buildings. Means of Egress is one.
     
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  4. cda

    cda Sawhorse

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    I need to move there,,,

    So I can install an escape slide.
     
  5. ICE

    ICE Moderator

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    Does what you propose fit within the narrow definition of a Means of Egress?
     
  6. griffino

    griffino Registered User

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    My argument is that the new stair is not part of a "Required Exit" and therefore is not part of the Means of Egress system. Therefore it wouldn't need to comply with what the 1968 code calls an "Interior Stairway". The 1968 code does not have a definition for "Means of Egress" but it does have this for "Exit"

    EXIT.- A means of egress from the interior of a building to an open exterior space which is provided by the use of the following, either singly or in combination: exterior door openings, vertical exits, exit passageways, horizontal exits, interior stairs, exterior stairs, fire towers or fire escapes; but not including access stairs, aisles, corridor doors or corridors

    Does that mean I can say its an "access stair"?
     
  7. griffino

    griffino Registered User

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    In fact, I'm required not to alter the means of egress by the DOB for the type of permit I'm applying for. I'm also seeing some guidance from the DOB saying you can have an "interior access stair" between apartments. So I think I'm on the right track. Would love if someone with experience here can confirm though!
     
  8. cda

    cda Sawhorse

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    From your research appears

    access stair is approved by code,

    Just check other provisions, since you are in a high rise.

    Most present codes allow an opening between floors, with no added requirements.
     
  9. ADAguy

    ADAguy Registered User

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    is the building sprinklered?
     
  10. griffino

    griffino Registered User

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    It's not sprinklered
     
  11. ADAguy

    ADAguy Registered User

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  12. cda

    cda Sawhorse

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    It was built in the 70's

    A lot of high rises with out fire sprinklers, makes sense, doesn't it?

    They burn up, and not down!
     
  13. griffino

    griffino Registered User

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    Closer to 1870s... It was built around 1905
     
  14. khsmith55

    khsmith55 Bronze Member

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    Even if a "sub-standard" stair is permitted I would be scared to death to design one. The first time someone falls down the stair guess who they are going to come after. When the Attorney asks why you designed a "dangerous" stair are you going to reply, because I could? His next question is going to be didn't you know it was a "dangerous" stair based on current Codes and data? Tread lightly and be carful.

    Ken
     
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  15. cda

    cda Sawhorse

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    So still trying to figure out how 1968 building code applies??
     
  16. cda

    cda Sawhorse

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    So why is it dangerous ?
     
  17. griffino

    griffino Registered User

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    1968 code applies, its not a question

    I understand I can be sued for any number of reasons. I would not tell a client they need an exit stair in their apartment if its common practice to provide a less stringent stair.
     
  18. ADAguy

    ADAguy Registered User

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    Floor to floor height, rise and run, handrails, headroom, floor framing are all issues of concern.
     
  19. griffino

    griffino Registered User

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    Because floor to floor height is more than 12' (its 12'-9") the stair would require an intermediate landing if its part of means of egress. Client just wants to know if they can get rid of the landing and make the stair 30" wide rather than 36".
     
  20. steveray

    steveray Sawhorse

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    I think you can call it an access stair, that might get you out of the rating, but the landings and other stair requirements might still apply...Not an NY guy...
     

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