Would a learning center that tutors kids in high school and below be considered an 'E' occupancy or a 'B' occupancy? Under the list of B occupancies in the 2006 IBC, one of the categories is "Training and skill development not within a school or academic program." Seems like that would fit. But then again so does the description of an E occupancy.
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Occupancy of a Learning Center
- Thread starter jeremy
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Gene Boecker
REGISTERED
Re: Occupancy of a Learning Center
I'd call it a "B" occupancy as long as there are less than 50 in an given room. In that case it would be an "A-3" assembly.
I'd call it a "B" occupancy as long as there are less than 50 in an given room. In that case it would be an "A-3" assembly.
vegas paul
Silver Member
Re: Occupancy of a Learning Center
Gene - there's no code justification for calling an Assembly occupancy a B just because each individual room has fewer than 50 occupants (calculated). 303.1 Exception 1 clearly states that the BUILDING must have fewer than 50 occupants to take this exception.
Anyway, it's probably a B just because 304.1 clearly lists this as the last example in the list.
Gene - there's no code justification for calling an Assembly occupancy a B just because each individual room has fewer than 50 occupants (calculated). 303.1 Exception 1 clearly states that the BUILDING must have fewer than 50 occupants to take this exception.
Anyway, it's probably a B just because 304.1 clearly lists this as the last example in the list.
globe trekker
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Re: Occupancy of a Learning Center
jeremy,
Section 102.1 GENERAL: of the `06 IBC - " ....the most restrictive shall govern."
jeremy,
Section 102.1 GENERAL: of the `06 IBC - " ....the most restrictive shall govern."
Gene Boecker
REGISTERED
Re: Occupancy of a Learning Center
Vegas, you have to exercise a reasonable amount of judgement is all I'm saying. Otherwise, every office building in the country would be an assembly occupancy whenever it had more than 50 people in it (you should see our staff meetings in the production area). Clearly a lecture room is considered an A occupancy. Then those areas inside other occupancies need to be treated as assembly rather than be absorbed into the occupancy of the "other stuff" there. If such a room were to exist, then the room should be classified as assembly - not something else.
Vegas, you have to exercise a reasonable amount of judgement is all I'm saying. Otherwise, every office building in the country would be an assembly occupancy whenever it had more than 50 people in it (you should see our staff meetings in the production area). Clearly a lecture room is considered an A occupancy. Then those areas inside other occupancies need to be treated as assembly rather than be absorbed into the occupancy of the "other stuff" there. If such a room were to exist, then the room should be classified as assembly - not something else.
vegas paul
Silver Member
Re: Occupancy of a Learning Center
Gene & Kil - I agree with your interpretations for assembly (conference) spaces within office environments, but the exception that Kil quoted is only for when the space is accessory to another occupancy.
The way I interpreted the original post was that the entire business was training/education, nothin accessory about it. If I misinterpreted, then I defer to your reasoning. However, if the entire space/business is tutoring/training/education it is a B regardless (due to 304.1).
Gene & Kil - I agree with your interpretations for assembly (conference) spaces within office environments, but the exception that Kil quoted is only for when the space is accessory to another occupancy.
The way I interpreted the original post was that the entire business was training/education, nothin accessory about it. If I misinterpreted, then I defer to your reasoning. However, if the entire space/business is tutoring/training/education it is a B regardless (due to 304.1).
Re: Occupancy of a Learning Center
VERY SPECIFIC - The use of a building or structure, or a portion thereof, by six or more persons at any one time for educational purposes, through the 12th grade. Section 305.1.
The designation for 'Use Group B' has long been intended for use by persons above the 12th grade, such as colleges or vocational training.
VERY SPECIFIC - The use of a building or structure, or a portion thereof, by six or more persons at any one time for educational purposes, through the 12th grade. Section 305.1.
The designation for 'Use Group B' has long been intended for use by persons above the 12th grade, such as colleges or vocational training.
Gene Boecker
REGISTERED
Re: Occupancy of a Learning Center
Bic Mac,
VERY SPECIFIC - Training and skill development not within a school or academic program.
(That's the last item in the "B" list)
Bic Mac,
VERY SPECIFIC - Training and skill development not within a school or academic program.
(That's the last item in the "B" list)
JBI
REGISTERED
Re: Occupancy of a Learning Center
Wher's packsaddle with that popcorn... this show's getting good!
Wher's packsaddle with that popcorn... this show's getting good!
Re: Occupancy of a Learning Center
We spend an awful lot of time exempting things that need no exempting and creating confusion. What possible reason is there for calling an educational experience something else? Try to find the overly restrictive code requirements for Group E that would impact these strip mall learning centers...let me know what you find.
I agree. What is not academic about tutoring high schoolers? Education is education.Big Mac said:
We spend an awful lot of time exempting things that need no exempting and creating confusion. What possible reason is there for calling an educational experience something else? Try to find the overly restrictive code requirements for Group E that would impact these strip mall learning centers...let me know what you find.
north star
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Re: Occupancy of a Learning Center
No service sinks were required at the batting cages, because the local BO determined that they
were not needed. The surfaces would be washed down regularly by Mother Nature. [ You WERE
referring to the unenclosed, exterior type of batting cages weren't you? ]
Also, FWIW, I too agree with TJacobs. Why aren't we classifying this one as Type "E" ? It IS
the 'most restrictive' isn't it? :?
No service sinks were required at the batting cages, because the local BO determined that they
were not needed. The surfaces would be washed down regularly by Mother Nature. [ You WERE
referring to the unenclosed, exterior type of batting cages weren't you? ]
Also, FWIW, I too agree with TJacobs. Why aren't we classifying this one as Type "E" ? It IS
the 'most restrictive' isn't it? :?
mtlogcabin
SAWHORSE
Re: Occupancy of a Learning Center
Group E occupancy includes, among others, the use of a building or structure, or a portion thereof, by six or more persons at any one time for educational purposes through the 12th grade.
So I guess a strict literal interpretation of this would stop the hunters education classes from being held anywhere but a Group E building which would be a direct violation of the gun free zones around schools. All those home schools with more than 6 kids are a change of occupancy will have to upgrade the IRC SFR to an IBC E compliance. CPR classes offered to teens for their certified baby sitter certs can't happen at the local health club because it's an A occupancy
It is tutoring, in and out in 1 to 2 hours it is not a 7 hour school day ( my assumption). If the occupant load for this use based on 20 sq per person net is less than 50 I would be use a "B" occupancy for this use.
Group E occupancy includes, among others, the use of a building or structure, or a portion thereof, by six or more persons at any one time for educational purposes through the 12th grade.
So I guess a strict literal interpretation of this would stop the hunters education classes from being held anywhere but a Group E building which would be a direct violation of the gun free zones around schools. All those home schools with more than 6 kids are a change of occupancy will have to upgrade the IRC SFR to an IBC E compliance. CPR classes offered to teens for their certified baby sitter certs can't happen at the local health club because it's an A occupancy
It is tutoring, in and out in 1 to 2 hours it is not a 7 hour school day ( my assumption). If the occupant load for this use based on 20 sq per person net is less than 50 I would be use a "B" occupancy for this use.
north star
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Re: Occupancy of a Learning Center
brudgers wrote:
"Hopefully your local BO didn't let them leave out exit signs and emergency illumination."
Exit signs are not required! See Section 1011, Exc. #1 & #3.
Also, emergency illumination not required - see Section 1006.1, Exc. #1
brudgers wrote:
"Hopefully your local BO didn't let them leave out exit signs and emergency illumination."
Exit signs are not required! See Section 1011, Exc. #1 & #3.
Also, emergency illumination not required - see Section 1006.1, Exc. #1
Re: Occupancy of a Learning Center
So 1101 Exception 3 and 1006.1 Exception 1 do not apply.
BTW, a manual alarm system is required if the aggregate net area of the cages exceeds 1000 square feet (50 occupants).
See 907.2.3
I'll buy 1011 Exception 1, but the occupancy of a batting cage is E based on the logic that a training center is E.north star said:
So 1101 Exception 3 and 1006.1 Exception 1 do not apply.
BTW, a manual alarm system is required if the aggregate net area of the cages exceeds 1000 square feet (50 occupants).
See 907.2.3
north star
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Re: Occupancy of a Learning Center
IMO, I would not classify the [ hypothetical - unclosed, exterior located ] batting cages as an E occupancy type,
but rather a type U. Also, most batting cages that I have seen and dimensioned do not have a 1,000 sq, ft.
Most are around the 750 - 900 sq. ft. [ each ] range, so no manual alarm is required.
Your batting cages may be different.
IMO, I would not classify the [ hypothetical - unclosed, exterior located ] batting cages as an E occupancy type,
but rather a type U. Also, most batting cages that I have seen and dimensioned do not have a 1,000 sq, ft.
Most are around the 750 - 900 sq. ft. [ each ] range, so no manual alarm is required.
Your batting cages may be different.
Gene Boecker
REGISTERED
Re: Occupancy of a Learning Center
Why do I get the feeling that brudgers is just "pushing buttons?"
Why do I get the feeling that brudgers is just "pushing buttons?"