panic hardware

[cda]

anyone think that the code should require panic hardware in other occupancies, besides A,E, and H??

1. maybe when certain occupancies hit a set occupant load for that type of occupancy?

2. or after 50 O/L????

 

[mark handler]

No..... not warranted.

 

[Builder Bob]

Almost always installed for ADA purposes and hardware restrictions for locking hardware...

Hardware - Single action to unlock

ADA - does not need to grasp or twist to unlock

I really believe direction of door swing would be more important than type of hardware installed (IMHO)

 

[tmurray]

The National Building Code of Canada requires it on all exit doors serving a floor area or building with an occupant load over 100 persons

 

[brudgers]

anyone think that the code should require panic hardware in other occupancies, besides A,E, and H?? 1. maybe when certain occupancies hit a set occupant load for that type of occupancy? 2. or after 50 O/L????

I'm sure someone thinks it. That person is an idiot.

 

[Doorman]

Have any of you ever required an exit device to be removed and replaced with a deadlock?

 

[cda]

just seems like the IBC is going backwards in some areas.

when a building can handle or have hundreds of people in it, why not make the exiting system a little safer?????

just like a mall, not a place of assembly, so you could but an approved door knob on second exits from the mall areas?????? and how many people pack into a mall sometimes????

 

[mark handler]

knobs are never allowed in non-residential. Do you mean levers?

 

[cda]

knobs are never allowed in non-residential. Do you mean levers?

I threw in "approved" just to cover myself yes lever- approved one

 

[Coug Dad]

One of the legacy codes required panic hardware at the door at the exit discharge at the bottom of a stair, but that went away with the ICC consoldation. There may have been some merrit to that requirement to prevent blocks at the bottom of a stair. I can't see expanding the requirement to other areas though.

 

[Frank]

I would think a threshold would be appropriate for large M uses where crowd surges can be a lethal issue even in the absence of fire.

 

[permitguy]

If someone thinks that 500 people trying to get out of a cubicle farm looks any different than 500 people trying to get out of a convention space, I could just as effectively argue

That person is an idiot.

I wouldn't generally take it that far, but . . .

 

[cda]

Yea just look around your office when the clock hits 4:59:59 pm

 

[brudgers]

just seems like the IBC is going backwards in some areas. when a building can handle or have hundreds of people in it, why not make the exiting system a little safer????? just like a mall, not a place of assembly, so you could but an approved door knob on second exits from the mall areas?????? and how many people pack into a mall sometimes????

Malls will have exit hardware where there is an assembly occupancy exiting through it - and assembly occupancies in malls must be located near a major exit.

 

[brudgers]

If someone thinks that 500 people trying to get out of a cubicle farm looks any different than 500 people trying to get out of a convention space, I could just as effectively argue.

In a Foxworthian voice:

If you can't recognize the difference between 50,000 sf office and a 2500 square foot assembly space... you might be an idiot.

 

[cda]

Malls will have exit hardware where there is an assembly occupancy exiting through it - and assembly occupancies in malls must be located near a major exit.

and the non assembly exits??? just put a lever on the door? to include the front doors people normally enter and exit?

 

[brudgers]

and the non assembly exits??? just put a lever on the door? to include the front doors people normally enter and exit?

Well, let's put it this way... If someone puts a latch on an entrance door for a mall building, it won't be long until it becomes enough of a maintenance issue that it will be replaced with something more sensible.

 

[mtlogcabin]

Most malls have a food court which will require panic or no latching devices on the mall exit doors

Large "M" occupancies usually have paddle delayed egress alarm harware

I do not see a reason to "require" panic hardware in other occupancy groups

 

[permitguy]

If you can't recognize the difference between 50,000 sf office and a 2500 square foot assembly space... you might be an idiot.

If you can't recognize that those weren't the occupant load factors I was concerned with... you aren't a very good designer.

 

[BSSTG]

Greetings

knobs are never allowed in non-residential.

Help me out here. I have any number of existing bldgs that are small Group M but because of the depth of the space they have the rear exit and always have had. Many were built in the 1930's and before. These exits are not accessible either. Can't these folks have a knob for their back door since it's not an accessible space? I would always prefer push bars on these bldgs especially in the old historic district. That said, what would be the most compliant solution? I'm always concerned about egress in these bldgs from a fire safety standpoint. Some of them are pretty iffy when looking past the veneers.

BS

 

[cda]

Most malls have a food court which will require panic or no latching devices on the mall exit doorsLarge "M" occupancies usually have paddle delayed egress alarm harware

I do not see a reason to "require" panic hardware in other occupancy groups

7 or 8 or what ever story hotel 30 units per floor possible 30 to 90 people per floor dumbing into a stairwell, door at the bottom people pile up at the bottom door??? granpa can't open the lever handle

 

[cda]

just threw it out there, to see if it would get off the ground or not, guess have to use the old tried and ture method of code change------------------- tragedy--------------------------

 

[mtlogcabin]

7 or 8 or what ever story hotel 30 units per floor possible 30 to 90 people per floor dumbing into a stairwell, door at the bottom people pile up at the bottom door??? granpa can't open the lever handle

If grandpa can't open the lever handle at the bottom of the stairs then the same logic would say he could not open the lever handle to get out of his room or through the door of the exit enclosure to get into the stairs in the first place.

Assembly and educational uses have large numbers grouped into small areas as brudgers was alluding too in a post

When people exit other occupancy groups during an emergency they do not all get to the door at the same time

If you require panic hardware on other occupancies are you doing away with delayed egress locks. Can't have both

 

[brudgers]

If you can't recognize that those weren't the occupant load factors I was concerned with... you aren't a very good designer.

Perhaps you should purchase a code book before further participation in this discussion.