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Pennsylvania Continues to Blindly Make Rules without Context

Our provincial architects and engineer's associations requires a digital 3rd party signature for digital plans. Their membership dues entitle them to the service with a specific 3rd party company located here in Canada. This company provided our provincial building official's association a free webinar on how to check the legitimacy of their digital stamps and offered free technical support to any building officials.

All in all, it was rolled out quite well.
 
I just read the Illinois Architects requirements and don't see anything that states this seal must be wet, just reproducible.
 
Our provincial architects and engineer's associations requires a digital 3rd party signature for digital plans. Their membership dues entitle them to the service with a specific 3rd party company located here in Canada. This company provided our provincial building official's association a free webinar on how to check the legitimacy of their digital stamps and offered free technical support to any building officials.

All in all, it was rolled out quite well.
As soon as global warming ramps up I am soooo moving to Canada.....They just seem to make sense...
 
There is background. I have been dealing with this situation for a while and suspected the DP would not have done what I saw on the plans. When I see something like this suspect I usually call the DP to have a discussion, this time the CBO did it and confirmed the plans were not prepared by the DP. The previous seals had been altered, and the most recent had been removed. It looks like the plans were altered and the seal removed. Both are problems between the DP and the person who did it. I do not take extraordinary measure to confirm seals and signatures unless I have a compelling reason. Our AES rules are vague, at best. It is not my intention or desire to enforce or cite any of those rules, only to verify the documents are prepared by a registered design professional. It is under that umbrella that I will try to verify they have been prepared by a duly registered design professional. I start with the state database to make sure the licensee is valid. I don't feel the need to check that very often (only when suspect). In this case the format of the signature/date was different than every other time they submitted, and the plans were also suspect.

I have been patiently waiting for some consistent and verifiable methods for electronic/digital seals and signatures. I stopped holding my breath. Received one today with no signature or date as required by the AES rules, but there was a blank digital signature line that I could apply my own digital signature to. I also see the majority of digitally applied seals that I can freely copy, delete, paste and alter if I so desired. This is a problem that needs to be addressed by the DP's and their licensure board. They are releasing documents that anyone can pirate or alter. VERY rarely do I encounter a sealed document that has security of any kind. When I am done with a plan I secure it as best I can (I protect my stamps and comments, and theirs as well), but the opportunity for misuse is real, and I suspect it happens more often than we think. Come to think of it, I encountered a revision on one about a week ago. Same deal, the proposal was suspect. I called the DP, who I work with all the time. He had no idea about it. They (contractor) had generated a new detail on a plan page that had extra space, and submitted it as if the DP had done it.
 
61G15-23.005 Procedures for Electronically Signing and Sealing Electronically Transmitted Plans, Specifications, Reports or Other Documents.

(1) Engineering plans, specifications, reports or other documents which must be signed, dated and sealed in accordance with the provisions of Section 471.025, F.S., and Rule 61G15-23.001, F.A.C. may be signed electronically as provided herein by the professional engineer in responsible charge. As used herein, the term “electronic signature” shall have the meanings ascribed to them in Sections 668.003(2), (3) and (4), F.S.

(2) A professional engineer utilizing an electronic signature to electronically sign and seal engineering plans, specifications, reports or other documents using the Florida Department of Transportation (FDOT) Professionals’ Electronic Data Delivery System (PEDDS) software shall:

(a) Create a “signature” file that contains the licensee’s given name, the licensee’s license number, a brief overall description of the engineering documents to be signed and sealed, a list of the electronic files to be signed and sealed, and the SHA-1 authentication code or Secure Hash Standard for each electronic file to be signed and sealed. The SHA-1 authentication code is described in Federal Information Processing Standard Publication 180-4 “Secure Hash Standard,” August 2015, which is hereby adopted and incorporated by reference by the Board and can be obtained from the Internet Website: http://www.flrules.org/Gateway/reference.asp?No=Ref-05976.

(b) Create a “signature” report that contains the licensee’s given name, the licensee’s license number, a brief overall description of the engineering documents to be signed and sealed and the SHA-1 authentication code of the signature file;

(c) Print and manually sign, date and seal the signature report in compliance with Rule 61G15-23.003, F.A.C.;

(d) Transmit the signed, dated and sealed signature report to the receiving party along with the signed, dated and sealed signature file, either by hardcopy or electronic scan, if scanned and sent electronically. The hardcopy signed and sealed report shall be retained by the licensee in accordance with Rule 61G15-30.009; and,

(e) The signature file is considered to be signed and sealed if the signature file’s authentication code matches the authentication code on the manually signed, dated and sealed signature report. Each electronic file listed within the signed and sealed signature file is considered to be signed and sealed if the listed SHA-1 authentication code in the signature file matches the electronic file’s SHA-1 authentication code.

(3) A professional engineer utilizing an electronic signature to electronically sign and seal engineering plans, specifications, reports or other documents other than through the FDOT PEDDS system shall:

(a) Create a static electronic version, such as PDF, of the engineering document(s) that is to be signed and sealed;

(b) Compute an SHA-1 authentication code for each electronic engineering document;

(c) Create a printable “signature report” that contains the licensee’s given name, the licensee’s license number, and a list of the electronic files to be signed and sealed that includes a brief description of each engineering document and the SHA-1 authentication code of each engineering document;

(d) Print and manually sign, date and seal the “signature report” in compliance with Rule 61G15-23.003, F.A.C.; and,

(e) Transmit the signed, dated and sealed “signature report” to the receiving party along with each electronically signed, dated and sealed engineering document either by hardcopy or electronic scan, if scanned and sent electronically. The hardcopy signed and sealed report shall be retained by the licensee in accordance with Rule 61G15-30.009, F.A.C. Each engineering document is considered to be electronically signed and sealed if the document’s SHA-1 authentication code matches the SHA-1 authentication code on the physically signed, dated and sealed “signature report.”

(4) The affixing of an electronic signature to engineering plans, specifications, reports or other documents as provided herein shall constitute the signing and sealing of such items.

(a) A digitally created seal as set forth in Rule 61G15-23.002, F.A.C. may be placed where it would appear if the item were being physically signed, dated and sealed.

(b) The date that the electronic signature is to be placed into the document must appear on the document in accordance with subsection 61G15-23.001(5), F.A.C. and where it would appear if the item were being physically signed, dated and sealed.

(c) A scanned, facsimile, digitally created or copied image of the licensee’s signature shall not be used on electronically signed and sealed engineering plans, specifications, reports or other documents.

(d) The engineering plans, specifications, reports or other documents being electronically signed and sealed shall include text to indicate the following and place it where an original signature would appear if the item were being physically signed, dated and sealed:

1. The same information required by subsection 61G15-23.002(2), F.A.C. if a digitally created seal is not used,

2. The item has been electronically signed and sealed using a SHA-1 authentication codes; and,

3. Printed copies of the document are not considered signed and sealed and all SHA-1 authentication code must be verified on any electronic copies.

(e) Formatting of seals and text similar to that depicted below may be used.

1. When a digitally created seal is used:



seal hereThis item has been electronically signed and sealed by C. S. Hammatt, PE. On [DATE] using a SHA-1 authentication code.

Printed copies of this document are not considered signed and sealed and the SHA-1 authentication code must be verified on any electronic copies.


2. When a digitally created seal is not used:




C. S. Hammatt, State of Florida, Professional Engineer, License No. X

This item has been electronically signed and sealed by C. S. Hammatt, PE. On [DATE] using a SHA-1 authentication code.

Printed copies of this document are not considered signed and sealed and the SHA-1 authentication code must be verified on any electronic copies.
Rulemaking Authority 471.025(1), 471.033(2), 471.008 FS. Law Implemented 471.025, 668.006 FS. History–New 11-3-15, Amended 2-3-16, 10-26-16.
 
As long as it is a DP licensed in the the State & the correct Number of stamps/DP as required by the State Rules we accept them. Hard enough to get that sometimes and my time is better spent on plan review and compliance.
 
It is electronic so who submitted it? If it is from the DP's email account or file transfer site then I would not be to worried that someone else is falsifying drawings/corrections and submitting them to us.
 
It is electronic so who submitted it? If it is from the DP's email account or file transfer site then I would not be to worried that someone else is falsifying drawings/corrections and submitting them to us.
In our case whoever applies for the permit online uploads the documents. 95% of the time it is the contractor.
 
98% of the time ours are submitted by the Architect since they are the ones who take a project through architectural and site review. The only file transfer site our IT department will allow us to use is the one operated by the state so all the DP's are already using it and most contractors do not want to be bothered with it. Win Win for us

Email can be used but it is very limited in size..
 
I suspect that there is confusion in the use of the term digital signature. A digital file that contains a scanned signature is not necessarily a digitally signed file.

A digitally signed file will tell you if it has been modified. In order to digitally sign a file the engineer needs to enter a password.

An electronic signature may consist of a scanned signature but for it to have legal validity you need more information that establishes that the engineer intended to sign the document.
 
I suspect that there is confusion in the use of the term digital signature. A digital file that contains a scanned signature is not necessarily a digitally signed file.

A digitally signed file will tell you if it has been modified. In order to digitally sign a file the engineer needs to enter a password.

An electronic signature may consist of a scanned signature but for it to have legal validity you need more information that establishes that the engineer intended to sign the document.
Absolutely correct. Electronic and Digital are two different things. Florida requires a digital signature that is verifiable and is voided if the document is altered. We see scanned copies of drawings with an electronic signature shown in print but the inner workings of the PDF lack any digital signature, therefore we cannot accept them by law.
 
In California both electronic and digital signatures are legal. Establishing that the electronic signature is valid is more difficult.

We have some agencies that will not accept a digitally signed file because they want to ad their stamp to the approved document which I understand they then seal
 
In California both electronic and digital signatures are legal. Establishing that the electronic signature is valid is more difficult.

We have some agencies that will not accept a digitally signed file because they want to ad their stamp to the approved document which I understand they then seal

In our case the uploaded file must be digitally signed and sealed, flattened with security settings that allow the building department to place their reviewed stamp on it. Once that is done, the file is flattened and brought back to the permit software as a separate file to be downloaded by the contractor.
  • The original file that was uploaded and digitally signed and sealed is left intact as proof of what was received.
  • A copy with the department seal "marked up" file is added for the contractor.
  • Yes when the BD stamp is added, it voids the RDP's digital signature but it is not relevant as the original intact file submitted to the BD is still present.
  • The system works as designed and protects the RDP because the BD stamped plan voids the signature.
 
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