Permit Expiration

[mtlogcabin]

In a normal world, this would tend to even out anyway.

I agree 100% until the bust comes to town.
For decades we were only allowed to keep 12 month of expenditures in a reserve account so we would have the budget/manpower needed to follow the projects through to CO. Last year the Legislature expanded that reserve amount to 3 years.

For those of you who cannot keep a reserve enterprise fund account for the down times, I suggest you work on how to get one setup. It can be at the local level or maybe a state requirement that forces the local AHJ to leave your department revenue for your department use only.
BTW after it builds up to 80 to 90% of the maximum allowed amount it is a good source for your departments capitol expenditures without asking the general fund to cover the expense.

 

[jar546]

I agree 100% until the bust comes to town.
For decades we were only allowed to keep 12 month of expenditures in a reserve account so we would have the budget/manpower needed to follow the projects through to CO. Last year the Legislature expanded that reserve amount to 3 years.

For those of you who cannot keep a reserve enterprise fund account for the down times, I suggest you work on how to get one setup. It can be at the local level or maybe a state requirement that forces the local AHJ to leave your department revenue for your department use only.
BTW after it builds up to 80 to 90% of the maximum allowed amount it is a good source for your departments capitol expenditures without asking the general fund to cover the expense.

I really wish our legislators would do the same and give me at least two years, not just one. Our reserve account cannot exceed the average of the previous four years' operating expenses. We have to operate as an enterprise fund with limits, while the Fire Department has no reserve cap at all.

 

[ICE]

the Fire Department has no reserve cap at all.

The fire service has big red trucks and uniforms. They run into burning buildings. Building departments can't compete with that.

 

[Penguin87]

According to UpCodes, West Virginia uses an amended version of the 2018 IBC. Here's what the code says about permit expiration:



Technically, they can come on the site once every 179 days and do ... something ... for an hour or two and they don't even need to request an extension. The problem lies in documenting this, and this applies to both the applicant and the building department. if they're going to play that game, how do they document that they were on the site on day 179 and worked on ... something ... for an hour or two hours? Conversely, if they claim that they did ... how can the building department prove that they didn't?

It was far less extreme than this case but at my previous job we had a guy who was finishing out his own basement, and the permit had been open for about six years (it began before I joined the department and, as far as I can remember, it was still on-going when I left). He would call us for an inspection about every fifth month, just like clockwork, and one of us would go out and look at the three or four new studs he had added since the last inspection. It was a nuisance, but the boss decided that was less trouble than what would have been involved if we had revoked the permit and started a legal battle over whether or not we had the right to do that.

I'm no building official, but I would argue that "an hour or two of work" every 6 months would be considered abandoned. I mean, come on. These people have spent 20 years on a foundation? They are going to die from old age before they finish framing the first floor.

 

[Yankee Chronicler]

I'm no building official, but I would argue that "an hour or two of work" every 6 months would be considered abandoned. I mean, come on. These people have spent 20 years on a foundation? They are going to die from old age before they finish framing the first floor.

You can argue whatever you want, but the code says

[A] 105.5 Expiration. Every permit issued shall become
invalid unless the work on the site authorized by such permit is
commenced within 180 days after its issuance, or if the work
authorized on the site by such permit is suspended or abandoned
for a period of 180 days after the time the work is
commenced. The building official is authorized to grant, in
writing, one or more extensions of time, for periods not more
than 180 days each. The extension shall be requested in writing
and justifiable cause demonstrated.

So, the key question is what the definitions of "suspended" and "abandoned" are. Neither term is defined in the IBC itself. But the IBC foresaw that it couldn't define all possible words:

201.4 Terms not defined. Where terms are not defined
through the methods authorized by this section, such terms
shall have ordinarily accepted meanings such as the context
implies.

So where do we go for the ordinarily accepted meanings of words? A dictionary, of course. Conveniently, this is the same thing courts do. If a word used in a law is not defined in the law, judges look in ... the dictionary. For American English, the Merriam-Webster Unabridged Dictionary is still (as far as I know) considered the most authoritative dictionary. And Merriam-Webster conveniently has a web site. In the context of how the words are used in the IBC:

suspend

transitive verb
1: to debar temporarily especially from a privilege, office, or function
suspend a student from school

2a: to cause to stop temporarily
suspend bus service

b: to set aside or make temporarily inoperative
suspend the rules

3: to defer to a later time on specified conditions
suspend sentence

4: to hold in an undetermined or undecided state awaiting further information
suspend judgment
suspend disbelief

abandoned

adjective

1a: left without needed protection, care, or support
an abandoned baby
… she … began to live in what she referred to as the straitened circumstances of an abandoned woman.—
Richard Russo

b: left by the owner
an abandoned car

: left to fall into a state of disuse
an abandoned field
abandoned property
an abandoned factory

c: no longer held or thought of
: given up
abandoned hopes/dreams

Having served as an expert witness in a number of legal matters, I've sat in a lot of courtrooms and read a lot of legal decisions. In law, especially, words have meanings -- and many lawsuits hinge on a disagreement over exactly what a word means. I am not a lawyer (and I am certainly not a judge), but as an author and editor I'll just say that I think if an owner can document that they have done some work -- and work at all -- on a construction project within a180-day period or within each of a series of 180-day periods, no matter how little work that is I can't imagine any court agreeing to call that project "suspended" or "abandoned."

A somewhat related concept is property rights. Suppose you own a piece of land and a hiking trail runs across a corner of it. You want to ensure that you don't lose your rights to control your property. You can put a chain across the trail and sign "PRIVATE PROPERTY -- NO TRESPASSING" for one day per year, and that retains your rights. It can be on New Years day, when nobody is ever likely going to be out hiking. Nobody has to see the chain and the sign, but if you take a photo of it and can validate it with a date stamp -- you will have protected your ownership of the land across which the trail runs.

 

[steveray]

I'm no building official, but I would argue that "an hour or two of work" every 6 months would be considered abandoned. I mean, come on. These people have spent 20 years on a foundation? They are going to die from old age before they finish framing the first floor.

And you would lose in court....

 

[jar546]

I'm no building official, but I would argue that "an hour or two of work" every 6 months would be considered abandoned. I mean, come on. These people have spent 20 years on a foundation? They are going to die from old age before they finish framing the first floor.

I agree and that is common sense. However, the way the administrative section of the code differs and they can continue. Many municipalities put time limits on permits at the local level where they are allowed to. Some states do too. PA has a 5 year limit for a permit.

 

[Penguin87]

And you would lose in court....

The jurisdictions I have worked with typically require either an inspection or revision to permit every 6 months or they expire the permit. I'm sure local jurisdictional statues are the rule here.