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Posting of Occupant Load

R

righter101

Gold Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2009
Messages
604
I scanned the previous posts but saw no mention of this. Forgive me if this has been hashed already.

2009 IBC. Small "wine tasting room". Occupant load= 21. Occupancy class = "B" (A2 <50 occupants (per 303.1 exception 1))

1004.3 Posting of occupant load. Every room or space that is

an assembly occupancy shall have the occupant load of the

room or space posted in a conspicuous place.....

Do they need to post the occupant load??

Why or why not??

thanks to all.
 
It's not an assembly occupancy, its a business. They are just happen to be getting together there. That's the way we have always looked at it, it'll be interesting to see some other opinions.
 
Although you calculate the occupancy using assembly use, if it's under 50 it's not an assembly occupancy. Section 303 identifies "Assembly Group A Occupancies." Exception 1 throws it out of assembly occupancy. I do not require those to be posted.
 
I am in agreement with you both. I had a differing opinion from my inspector, however, and wanted to see what others thought.
 
Righter

Do you make up the signs if the business does not??

Sometimes it is good to post even though under 50

For future inspections by others, for the cops , etc..
 
We don't post anything under 50 and we make our own signs so they are all consistant throughout the City. I finally made that a requirement because I got tired of seeing napkins, construction paper and placemats being used.
 
It may be an assembly use, but it is not an assembly occupancy; and an assembly occupancy is what is mentioned in the section.
 
As posted, the sign may be wrong; 21 occupants x 7 sf/occ (1004.2) is a very small room!

The Maximum Occupant Load may really be 49 persons (may even be able to use 5 sf/occ around the serving counter), subject to the capacity of the means of egress system (which probably well exceeds 21 persons).

To remind the users that the space is not for 50 or more persons, posting the maximum load, which should not exceed 49 occupants to remain Group B, may be appropriate and in accordance with IBC Section 1004.2.
 
A project last year; I noticed an occupancy sign had been posted in a conference room. Occupancy calculated out as 30 something (don't remember exact). Occupancy calculation where shown on my drawings for review by plans examiner. I was kind of surprised to see it posted. Inspector must have asked for it to be posted, I didn't ask.

Anyway, I remember thinking, I don't care if if you have 49 or less people in the room as it would not change exiting or any other code issue. Here's my question for the collective: If a room calculates out to say 38 occupants, is there anything wrong with posting 49 as the maximum occupancy? I seen people wanting to post occupancy lower than calculated to eliminate code requirements, but this was the opposite. Anyone have heart ache for posting higher occupancy provided all code issues are handled?
 
RLGA said:
It may be an assembly use, but it is not an assembly occupancy; and an assembly occupancy is what is mentioned in the section.
Click to expand...
I think that is an excellent reasoning. Thank you for that.

To the other posts, we don't provide occupant load signs but it is worth considering, for consistency.
 
Or, 21 occupants X 15 s.f./occ (table/chairs) = 315 s.f. or a 15' X 21' small wine tasitng room.

But, if you have doubts about it, post max OL as Aegis suggests, give you some enforcement leverage.
 
AegisFPE said:
As posted, the sign may be wrong; 21 occupants x 7 sf/occ (1004.2) is a very small room! The Maximum Occupant Load may really be 49 persons (may even be able to use 5 sf/occ around the serving counter), subject to the capacity of the means of egress system (which probably well exceeds 21 persons).

To remind the users that the space is not for 50 or more persons, posting the maximum load, which should not exceed 49 occupants to remain Group B, may be appropriate and in accordance with IBC Section 1004.2.
Click to expand...
The plan reviewer reviewed it at 15sqft/occupant.

These spaces are tiny, (there was actually 2 locations). 600-700 square feet, which includes some storage.

Hardly enough room to stack some fine boxed wines.
 
Interesting Thread! I agree with the comments. No need to post! Mark raises an interesting question. If a room calculates to be 38 an is assembly then I would not allow it to have a higher number of 49.
 
I agree it isn't required, but IMO, it's much easier for all involved when they're posted anyway. It saves me the trouble of counting ceiling tiles and doing math in my head trying to figure out if things have changed since the original CO. It saves them the trouble of finding out the hard way that they couldn't exceed 50.

We recently had a health club convert raquetball courts into general purpose exercise rooms (with permits). The occ loads were calculated under 50, so they weren't required to be posted. During the fire inspection, I found one room with 70 bikes in it. I was shocked they could get them all in there, but they did.

Anyone have heart ache for posting higher occupancy provided all code issues are handled?
Click to expand...
Not at all.
 
post the occ load here. some old businesses have only one exit which limits the occ load. gives the cops a reason to keep crowds under control in one door businesses.
 
RJJ,

I design based on floor area. In my example, I calculated occupant load to show it was under 50 to show exiting complied. I could have very easily shown my calcs = 38, but to post signage for maximum of 49 occupants. As long as exiting can handle 49 occupants, does it really matter to post the higher number? I didn't know an occupancy was going to be posted so I never had input on what the signage said.

Let's do another example: I have a 150 SF office which calculates out to 1.5 occupants for that office. If two of my co-workers step into my office for a meeting making 3 total occupants, is that against the code? I say no way. Exiting for 3 works just fine. The only difference we have here is were talking a little larger rooms with larger occupancy. No I do not believe the calculated occupancy per floor area is the maximum allowed in any room of a building at any one time.
 
RJJ said:
Pwood: Do you base OC on exists or floor area?
Click to expand...
i start out with table 1004.1.1 to determine # of occupants. i then look at the # of exits, width of exits ,travel distance etc etc...if there is only one exit and 5 k sq. ft. dance hall, the number of occs will be posted based on the one exit provided. bad things happen when you allow too many people in a building with too few or locked exits. the police have asked me on occasion to determine an occupant load to be posted at some of the bars and saloons so they can count heads and thin the rowdy herd when necessary.
 
2009 IBC 1004.2 Increased occupant load. The occupant load permitted in any building, or portion thereof, is permitted to be increased from that number established for the occupancies in Table 1004.1.1, provided that all other requirements of the code are also met based on such modified number and the occupant load does not exceed one occupant per 7 square feet (0.65 m2) of occupiable floor space. Where required by the building official, an approved aisle, seating or fixed equipment diagram substantiating any increase in occupant load shall be submitted. Where required by the building official, such diagram shall be posted.

That said, 1004.3 Posting of occupant load. Every room or space that is an assembly occupancy shall have the occupant load of the room or space posted in a conspicuous place, near the main exit or exit access doorway from the room or space. Posted signs shall be of an approved legible permanent design and shall be maintained by the owner or authorized agent.

The way I read it... A) The applicant could request a higher occupant load and the Code Oddicial could approve it. and B) Posting of occupant load is required for assembly occupancies as pointed out previously. What you indicated was that this is a business occupancy, therefore requiring it to be posted is outside the scope of authority. Suggesting it on the other hand would be permissible.
 
FM: No Problem!

Mark: I don't disagree and I understand your point. And no the second example would not violate the code. I would assume the co- workers are allocated for in some other space within the building/ Floor.

Pwood: Much clearer not I think.
 
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