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Required to destroy accessory use building because main no longer exists?
- Thread starter jbmsurfs
- Start date
Yankee Chronicler
REGISTERED
Buy the cheapest set of plans you can find from one of the on-line plan selling services. If you don't intend to build it, it doesn't matter what plan you choose.
Yikes
SAWHORSE
I don't know the city's zoning code definition of a pool, but in the 2015 Michigan residential building code, it must be used for human aquatic functions in order to be called a "pool". The words "and used for" in the code excerpt below is critical. Otherwise, it's probably just a glorified retaining wall...?
https://up.codes/viewer/michigan/mi-residential-code-2015/chapter/42/swimming-pools#E4201.2
mtlogcabin
SAWHORSE
You could stock with fish and call it a pond
Any money (and time) invested in this process should increase the property value, and it looks good in an advertisement. "Ready to build" or "plans approved" will tell the shoppers that this property is ready for construction and not in the middle of a lengthy code enforcement process.
jar546
CBO
That will be enough to disappoint the Building Dept. Could be they will disappoint you back. I mean, you know... just thinking out loud... about how I ... well anyway. That sorta sounds Presidential.
No need to remove the equipment. Put a cover over it. If you ventilate it, you can leave it when the pool is restored.
Mr. Inspector
SAWHORSE
making it into a fish pond sounds cool too.
Here you would have to get a demo permit and we would make you compact the soil in lifts, special inspections and soil report, and perforate the bottom of the pool to allow drainage. If you did fill it without all of that, we would be likely to disappoint you...
Not that we would necessarily make you tear out a pool in this instance, but when you do we want it ready to build on without a lot of preliminary issues.
Before anyone asks what code section, it isn't code, it is a local ordinance.
We allow you to choose between an engineered fill or not an engineered fill.
In the case at hand I suppose the AHJ is playing hardball for a reason however, Shirley there is a way to satisfy everyone without destroying the pool.
In the case at hand I suppose the AHJ is playing hardball for a reason however, Shirley there is a way to satisfy everyone without destroying the pool.
Msradell
SAWHORSE
A community pool is a pool for a neighborhood. That may be a regional term but we had a lot of them in South Carolina and there a few of them around here in Louisville. Membership for some of them are covered by the HOA dues and some of them are covered by a separate payment if you want to join.
jar546
CBO
A public community pool, has essential support buildings like bathrooms, changing rooms, and storage, should be considered a primary public recreational use, not an accessory structure, because it aligns with the intent of zoning regulations to serve the community’s needs, promote public welfare, and falls under the municipality's authority to develop and manage public facilities.
An HOA pool is almost exclusively on a parcel that is a common area which has the same as above plus management offices so again, the pool is not an accessory structure without a primary structure. I don't agree with your premise that community and HOA pools are technically illegal per zoning laws.
Additionally, many of these communities with HOAs are Planned Unit Developments (PUDs) that have these amenities. Therefore, there is a clear and distinct difference between the OP and what you are trying to say. Apples and Zucchinis.
(left) HOA Pool for condo --- (middle)Community complex with pool and buildings --- (right) Community Pool in Common area w/community building (HOA)
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I wanted to update everyone and give my many thanks. You guys all played a vital role in my desire to continue to fight for what I had thought was right, and it appeared nearly all of you agreed.
Over this past weekend I wrote our story in the most proper way I could, an honest way, and I blasted nearly every politician in my state, as well as our District Attorney. I heard back from nearly all of them, all with the same story, that they were in no position to be able to do anything, although they sympathized with our story. My state has no zoning oversight and little anyone can do, except at the local level. Our county DA sent our story to our city manager (someone I had not thought of during my email blast). I then reached out personally to the city manager who said he was working on this all week, gathering info, etc.. and he would get back with me.
I just heard from the city manager this afternoon, who asked me to whom make out the insurance withholding check to and where to send it. We are immediately getting our $15k returned and this story is closed. We will be permitted to sell the property with the pool, without any further action by the city to remove it. It appears our amazing city manager has returned the human side to this story and I am forever grateful.
Thank you again, to all of you here that have helped with suggestions etc.., because you have. If you yourself have any problems in the future and know you are correct, remember your city manager, if you indeed have one.
-Jonathan
Over this past weekend I wrote our story in the most proper way I could, an honest way, and I blasted nearly every politician in my state, as well as our District Attorney. I heard back from nearly all of them, all with the same story, that they were in no position to be able to do anything, although they sympathized with our story. My state has no zoning oversight and little anyone can do, except at the local level. Our county DA sent our story to our city manager (someone I had not thought of during my email blast). I then reached out personally to the city manager who said he was working on this all week, gathering info, etc.. and he would get back with me.
I just heard from the city manager this afternoon, who asked me to whom make out the insurance withholding check to and where to send it. We are immediately getting our $15k returned and this story is closed. We will be permitted to sell the property with the pool, without any further action by the city to remove it. It appears our amazing city manager has returned the human side to this story and I am forever grateful.
Thank you again, to all of you here that have helped with suggestions etc.., because you have. If you yourself have any problems in the future and know you are correct, remember your city manager, if you indeed have one.
-Jonathan
Some city's adopt an ordinance (law) insurance hold back, like 10% of the face value of the insurance policy. Those hold-back funds are then dropped in an interest bearing account. After the structure (HOME) is demolished the funds are released to the property owner with any interest accumulated. I would think your pool would be insured under you homeowners policy? With that said, I would think the city would have to release those funds if the main structure has been demolished. Those funds IMHO are being held hostage if demo is complete and the city very well may not have a legal standing.
Some city's do things like condemning your house if you haven't paid your water bill then keep the building department from issuing permits, do you thinks that's right?
Genduct
REGISTERED
Sorry to be late with response. I only look when a message pops up in my in box.
The local Inspectors have to have written guidelines like We will use the ICC Codes year 20?? AND they have Written Admin Rules to follow..... You need to have them send you a copy of what they are using to come up with their action that will most certainly cause you an Unnecessary Financial Hardship
At the same time the situation is NO Threat To PUBLIC Safety. Bldg Code Officials Responsibilities and therefore their Authority has been recognized in English Common Law for several Hundred Years, We have "Police Powers because of that Public Safety aspect. Ask them to Cite what aspect of Public Safety is being compromised or threatened on your Private Property, Especially when any access without your permission is subject to TRESPASS
This "Violation" will be dealt with at some level in a local COURTROOM Which Court would hear this matter? That will tell the Lawyer the level of concern.
Tell the Code people you are trying to do your own homework so you can reduce the Attorney Cost
My number is 267 784 2401 if you would like to get a 2nd opinion
Best, Mike