Section 1005.1 egress width from big box stores

[Simonsays]

2009 IBC, Section 1005.1. Question: How do big box stores, for example Sam's, Best Buy, Target, Home Depot, and others have only one (and sometimes two) 14 to 18 foot wide entry/exit when a store of that size needs around 50 feet of egress width? I'm sure there are additional emergency exit doors scattered around the building but not nearly enough to comply with the minimum required width. For example, assume a store of 85,000 square feet, divided by 30 square feet per occupant for mercantile yielding 2,830 occupants times 0.2 inch per occupant equaling 566" or 47 feet.

 

[Coug Dad]

There are typically single or pairs of exit only doors distributed around the perimeter of the store. Most people would probably never know they are there. Classic main door egress scenario. People will want to exit via the door they came in.

 

[rshuey]

Most actually have 3 times the amount needed. In the rear of the stores there are double doors, at least 40' of egress in the front and side exits throughout. The last few big box stores built around here were well over the requirements.

Go to Walmart and do a perimeter search. Tons of egress doors.

 

[gbhammer]

We just about have the walmart now one month from completion and it has tons of egress

 

[rshuey]

Travel distances require a ton of egresses. A local Tractor Supply store has 27 egress doors...haha

 

[gbhammer]

Travel distances require a ton of egresses. A local Tractor Supply store has 27 egress doors...haha

yep in the big box travel distance restrictions dictate the location/amount of doors far more than egress width.

 

[mtlogcabin]

We just about have the walmart now one month from completion and it has tons of egress

Watch when they place the bollards at the main exit doors. They where installed inside the door width here and reduced the exit width which equated to about a 48" loss on the main exit doors. Had to relocate some to make it work.

 

[north star]

= & =

How far away from the Exit doors do the bollards have to

be placed to NOT be an obstruction to the egress loads?

Code sections please...

= $ =

 

[Big Mac]

In my experience, they usually have plenty of doors, though not always. The bigger issue I have typically had is that they don't want to sign properly and provide acceptable exit hardware.

 

[mtlogcabin]

When the sliding glass doors open to 71" of clear opening and the 6" bollards protecting the door edges when open from shopping carts measure 62" the egress width has been reduced and the Arch exiting plan shows the OL going through the door is 340 people then a 68" clear opening is required.

 

[Coug Dad]

= & =How far away from the Exit doors do the bollards have to

be placed to NOT be an obstruction to the egress loads?

Code sections please...

= $ =

1003.6 (2006)

 

[Big Mac]

Certainly could not be within the distance required for exterior landings, at the very least.

 

[north star]

* * *

I was thinking more of along the lines of directly in front of the egress doors.

* * *

 

[Big Mac]

I don't think I have ever seen them placed within the distance required for the exterior landing. If they were placed there the width of actual egress provided would need to be reduced by the width of the posts. In any case a width not less than 32" would be required.

 

[ICE]

For example, assume a store of 85,000 square feet, divided by 30 square feet per occupant for mercantile yielding 2,830 occupants times 0.2 inch per occupant equaling 566" or 47 feet.

Wow that's a lot of parked cars huh. Wouldn't it make sense to deduct the space taken up by merchandise?

 

[brudgers]

* * * I was thinking more of along the lines of directly in front of the egress doors. * * *

There is significantly more aggregate "exit width" between the bollards than through the doors And they are in the exit discharge not the exit access or the exit.

Keep in mind once people are through the doors they may move perpendicularly to the door.

 

[gbhammer]

Wow that's a lot of parked cars huh. Wouldn't it make sense to deduct the space taken up by merchandise?

No deduction for merchandise is given anywhere in the code. You calculate the design occupant load for the worst case not the common (sense) case.

 

[Frank]

Wow that's a lot of parked cars huh. Wouldn't it make sense to deduct the space taken up by merchandise?

The space taken up by merchandise is included in the 30 sq ft per person--alternately you could use 5 sq ft per person for the aisles as standing space--think black friday when people are crowding in to literally killing desities.

Walmarts can have actual occupant loads over 2000

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2008448574_shop290.html

 

[ICE]

No deduction for merchandise is given anywhere in the code. You calculate the design occupant load for the worst case not the common (sense) case.

That's why I asked the question. 85,000 less 75% is 21,250. 21,250/30 = 708. I've been in huge stores and never came close to even 500 fellow shoppers. That now and then the stores are overloaded to the point of stampedes is another issue.

2800 people would mean that the aisles are full and 2200 are able to purchase only what they can carry because there aren't enough shopping carts. During the five hours it would take to make a purchase, one child would be born, .3 heart attacks would strike, and speaking of strikes, watch out for lightning.

 

[High Desert]

The Super Walmart here is close to 6,000 OL. They designed it with about 25% more than the required egress width, which they typically do because of travel distance requirements.

 

[gbhammer]

The walmart about to be finished here has a design OL of nearly 5,000 including the garden area.

 

[globe trekker]

ICE asked:

Wow that's a lot of parked cars huh. Wouldn't it make sense to deduct the space taken up by merchandise?

That's why I asked the question. 85,000 less 75%..

How would the 75% be guaranteed that it will remain at 75% and not 70%, or even 65%, or 62%.You get the idea! Retailers re-arrange / adjust their shelving fixtures regularly. The 30 sq. ft. per person

is a minimum worse case design. Try and ask one retailer to go 40 sq. ft. per person and see what

happens.

 

[Codegeek]

The firm I work for does a lot of work for "big box" retailers. Travel distance is a bigger issue than providing enough egress inches based on the occupant load. We usually end up putting in the neighborhood of 25% more egress inches due to travel distance.

NFPA 101 has a requirement for retail use groups that at least 50 percent of the total required egress inches be located in the front wall of the store if the main entrance into the store is in the front wall, which is another reason why some "big box" retailers put so many inches in the front doors.

 

[High Desert]

The firm I work for does a lot of work for "big box" retailers. Travel distance is a bigger issue than providing enough egress inches based on the occupant load. We usually end up putting in the neighborhood of 25% more egress inches due to travel distance.

Exactly, Codegeek.