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Self-Certification Program??

100 years ago you had a builder an electrician and a plumber building a home and no RDP.
Today you have a "contractor" driving a round with a cell phone coordinating when the 25 "subs" can be onsite to do their work.
Why?
IMHO worker comp law requirements and the exemptions (independent contractors) that are used to reduce those cost are a contributing factor.
 
I lament the lack of societal respect for physical labor. But are you saying that the non-physical labor of RDPs has become careless in order to accommodate the decline in construction quality from a physical labor force that had gone careless?
Or are you saying that devaluing physical labor eventually leads to an overall zeitgeist of laziness and shortcuts, and RDPs have been swept up into it along with everyone else?
The latter....but not necessarily laziness....Just the money money money, fast fast fast dives crap....Laziness is maybe the cherry on top....
 

I’ve heard that the increasingly sophisticated suite of safety features of cars - air bags, crumple zones, antilock brakes, collision avoidance radar and adaptive cruise control, have only served to make the average driver more reckless, and give permission to be distracted. I wonder if externalizing the perceived* responsibility for plan check to the AHJ is a partial cause (not merely correlation) for increased carelessness by RDPs.
Every time I see a flashy car commercial depicting a driver doing anything other than driving I yell at the TV.

This has crept into a hot button for me, and I usually try to keep quite. But this thread has drifted into it for me so here goes.

I think codes have fallen victim to mission creep. They have moved away from a set of minimums, to a set of agenda driven wish-lists, virtue signaling, and industry influence. We have moved away from what works and is safe, to a set of nanny codes that tries to be all things to all people. They have become too complex, too numerous, and too inclusive. I think they force non-compliance, and a reliance on "others". Others being relative to who reads them (or doesn't) and becomes a circular process. The plumber relies on the contractor, the contractor relies on the inspector, the inspector relies on the plan reviewer, the plan reviewer relies on the designer, the designer relies on the contractor, the contractor relies on the plumber...you get the picture. Critical thinking and skill is excused, devalued, and sometimes laughed at.

This code says that, that code says this. This agency enforces that, that agency enforces this. And just about the time any one code finally makes sense, gets understood, and works its way into widespread practice it is moved, changed, or deleted. It is hard to fault the builder, code official, or designer.

Like anything, give people too much to read, they stop reading. Give too much data, they stop processing. Give too much code, they stop caring. By people I mean all parties. Count the code books, the pages, the rules, the exceptions, the references. Then think where it will be in a decade. We have all asked about the future of the profession. Do we think it will be better if we can just get a little more code? Would it get better if self-certification is implemented? Would it change anything? Will we need a new set of books for that?

Based on my experience, the DP's I deal with have no business in our business, but as Yikes points out, has too much code allowed them to become complacent? Has it forced them to be that way? Has it removed any sense of responsibility?

End rant.
 
I lament the lack of societal respect for physical labor. But are you saying that the non-physical labor of RDPs has become careless in order to accommodate the decline in construction quality from a physical labor force that had gone careless?
Or are you saying that devaluing physical labor eventually leads to an overall zeitgeist of laziness and shortcuts, and RDPs have been swept up into it along with everyone else?

With respect to design professionals, I think the federal government started the slide. When I started work as an intern architect, the AIA published a schedule of recommended fees. The fee was calculated as a percentage of the estimated construction cost, and the percentages increased depending on the size and complexity of the project. The fees were enough to allow the entire design team to do their work, and still make a few bucks.

Some time in the late 1970s or early 1980s, someone convinced the federal government to decree that the existence of a recommended fee schedule was an illegal restraint of trade, so from then on architects weren't allowed to use that document to set their fees. Once owners realized that architects weren't allowed to rely on the AIA fee schedule, they started beating up on design professionals with respect to fees. Nobody wants to let a prospective commission get away, so architects (and, by extension, engineers) started reducing their fees just to get contracts. At the same time fees were going down, codes were becoming more complex and the amount of work involved for the design professionals was increasing.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that his just sets up a race to the bottom -- and that's what we are seeing today. Design professionals (especially those who are accustomed to doing work in jurisdictions that don't enforce code requirements for information to be included in construction documents) base their fees on less-than-minimal drawings, and then act surprised and get butt hurt when a jurisdiction has the temerity to ask that they actually provide the minimum information that the code requires.

To a great extent, our colleagues who allow this are also a major part of the problem. My former job was in a town abutting a city that didn't do plan reviews and was widely understood to do "windshield" inspections. Now I work on the other side of that same city. In both jobs, I frequently cite something from the code and the response is "But they don't make me do that in [___]." Yeah, well I can't speak for what they don't make you do in [____], but I quoted you the code section that requires it.

There was a commercial project a few years ago that I did the plan review for as a consultant to a small town with a one-man building department. The permit drawings consisted mostly of computer-generated 3-D renderings, with no details of how anything was supposed to be built. The BO and I met with the architect and explained to him that the code requires construction documents -- with enough information to show how the completed construction will comply with the code. We told him that his drawings weren't construction documents, they were at best schematic design drawings. The architect actually asked us if the town was going to pay him for the "extra" work we were asking for. Obviously, it was beyond his comprehension that his fee should have included providing what the code requires as minimum information. As far as he was concerned, he was just hired to create a design -- nothing more.

That's the problem.
 
Things have changed and are more complicated. Designers have done it to themselves. Builders are happy to be in charge. Codes remain reactionary and a couple of decades behind. Computers contributed to the changes. And I agree with those that find it sad.
 
Some time in the late 1970s or early 1980s, someone convinced the federal government to decree that the existence of a recommended fee schedule was an illegal restraint of trade, so from then on architects weren't allowed to use that document to set their fees. Once owners realized that architects weren't allowed to rely on the AIA fee schedule, they started beating up on design professionals with respect to fees. Nobody wants to let a prospective commission get away, so architects (and, by extension, engineers) started reducing their fees just to get contracts. At the same time fees were going down, codes were becoming more complex and the amount of work involved for the design professionals was increasing.
I agree, that was an antitrust case brought by the USDOJ against the AIA.
The architect actually asked us if the town was going to pay him for the "extra" work we were asking for. Obviously, it was beyond his comprehension that his fee should have included providing what the code requires as minimum information. As far as he was concerned, he was just hired to create a design -- nothing more.
If the architect is going to take that approach, they should be stating in their contract something like this: "The scope of this work is for schematic design only. Upon completion of Schematic Design, the Architect shall submit a proposal for further design development and construction documents sufficient to demonstrate compliance with applicable codes if submitted for plan check to the Authority Having Jurisdiction."
 
Do you think this has anything to do with codes?

Trends in residential fire deaths
1980 vs. 2023: The home fire death rate dropped from 23.0 per million people in 1980 to 8.6 per million people in 2023.
2022 vs. 2023: The rate of home fire deaths increased from 7.5 per 1,000 reported home fires in 2022 to 8.7 in 2023.
Regional differences: The southeastern states have the highest rates of fire fatalities.
 
I suspect the long term drop does to some degree. Detectors and educational work reinforcing the code requirements. I don't consider the one year bump to mean very meaningful. No explanations from the source?
 
Do you think this has anything to do with codes?

Trends in residential fire deaths
1980 vs. 2023: The home fire death rate dropped from 23.0 per million people in 1980 to 8.6 per million people in 2023.
2022 vs. 2023: The rate of home fire deaths increased from 7.5 per 1,000 reported home fires in 2022 to 8.7 in 2023.
Regional differences: The southeastern states have the highest rates of fire fatalities.
I.O.W. the fire death rate dropped to 1/3 of its 1980 levels. But were there major innovations in life safety codes for residences during that time?
Or were the other cultural factors at play? I know type X gyp became a bit more prevalent at big box retailers.
What about smoking?
In the late 1970s, 38% of American adults smoked. In 2022, 11.6% smoked, a drop of about 1/3. Correlation, or causation?
Regional difference: the southeast also has the highest percentage of smokers.
Correlation, or causation?
 
"The architect actually asked us if the town was going to pay him for the "extra" work we were asking for. Obviously, it was beyond his comprehension that his fee should have included providing what the code requires as minimum information. As far as he was concerned, he was just hired to create a design -- nothing more. I agree, that was an antitrust case brought by the USDOJ against the AIA."

If the architect is going to take that approach, they should be stating in their contract something like this: "The scope of this work is for schematic design only. Upon completion of Schematic Design, the Architect shall submit a proposal for further design development and construction documents sufficient to demonstrate compliance with applicable codes if submitted for plan check to the Authority Having Jurisdiction."

They should ... but they won't. They won't because they don't want to scare the client away. They'd rather quote an unrealistically low fee, and then whine about the mean building department when we point out that they haven't provided the minimum information required by the building code.
 
Do you think this has anything to do with codes?

Trends in residential fire deaths
1980 vs. 2023: The home fire death rate dropped from 23.0 per million people in 1980 to 8.6 per million people in 2023.
2022 vs. 2023: The rate of home fire deaths increased from 7.5 per 1,000 reported home fires in 2022 to 8.7 in 2023.
Regional differences: The southeastern states have the highest rates of fire fatalities.

I think comparing a 43 year trend against a one year interval is statistically meaningless.
 
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