Sink encroachment into maeuvering clearances at toilets

[Yikes]

In a public single occupancy restroom, California Building Code 11B-604.3.1 requires two kinds of clearances:

1) A WATER CLOSET clearance 60" wide x 56" deep. the 56" is measured from the rear wall. 11B-604.3.2 says no fixtures may be located within the required WATER CLOSET clearance".

2) A MANEUVERING clearance 60" wide x 48" deep. The 48" is measured from the front of the toilet. The code is silent about allowing other fixtures in this space. In this scenario, if the toilet is 30" long, the walls of single-occupancy restroom must be at least (30" + 48" =) 78" deep.

**QUESTION: for item #2, can the MANEUVERING clearance include the space underneath a sink, as described in 11B-306.2?

Here's my specific situation:

I am trying to modify existing single occupancy male and female toilet rooms for code compliance, and each room is 62" wide x 90" long. After I meet the 56" deep clear toilet space, that leaves me another (90-56=) 34" of extra depth in which I can place a wall-mounted sink, even though this sink encroaches into the manuevering space (#2). I have the required knee and toe clearance under the sink.

Will this work?

 

[mark handler]

Refer to CBC 11B-306.3.3 Minimum required depth.

Exception 1.

 

[Yikes]

Mark, I agree that 11B-306.3.3 describes required depth for knee clearance at a lavatory. But is there anything that positively states that "maneuvering clearance" for a toilet can include, or be met by, knee clearance?

In other words, is toilet maneuvering clearance always 7' tall, or can a sink encroach in the manuevering space, provided the knee clearance described in 11B-306.3.3 is met?

 

[jdfruit]

This may help

11B-604.3.2 Overlap. The required clearance around the water closet shall be permitted to overlap the water closet, associated grab bars, dispensers, sanitary napkin disposal units, coat hooks, shelves, accessible routes, clear floor space and clearances required at other fixtures, and the turning space. No other fixtures or obstructions shall be located within the required water closet clearance.

A floor plan would be helpful to understand the issues at hand

 

[steveray]

Agree with JDF....Clearances can overlap each other, not fixtures into clearances even with knee space under a lav...At least here...

 

[Yikes]

See attached pdf, which looks like a Venn diagram of overlapping clearances.The yellow area is the (#1) TOILET CLEARANCE; I know there is no other fixture overlap allowed in this area. It is 60" wide x 54" in front of the rear wall.The red is the 5' turnaround, which includes knee clearance below the lav.The orange striped area is the (#2) toilet MANEUVERING CLEARANCE, and the code appears silent on whether the lav can encroach here with proper knee and toe clearance. It is 60" wide x 48" in front of the front edge of the toilet.FYI, I am aware that the latching door will only work if I don't also have a closer on it.

View attachment 1128

DOC233.pdf

DOC233.pdf

 

[steveray]

I think 304.3.1 lets you use knee and toe clearance for turning....not sure if that actually gets you there, or if that is available in CA...

 

[JPohling]

I have done several where the turnaround passes under the sink by a few inches. Your diagram shows the circle past the drain tailpiece. That will never work as you do not have knee clearance.

 

[Yikes]

OK, I can slightly adjust to make sure the lav drain tailpiece is not in the 5' turn area. The question remains: Can the orange striped area (outside of the yellow area) have a sink with proper knee clearance?

 

[jdfruit]

Have seen this go both ways, lav ok & not in the CA required additional maneuvering space (48 x 60). Need to get AHJ to weigh in on issue. If DSA for schools, my experience is: SAC region = yes, OAK region = NO, LA region = OK, San Diego region = NO. Don't have a read for any Cities or Counties in SoCal

 

[Yikes]

jdfruit, thanks. FYI in this case it is a city-owned project, so the AHJ may be more inclined to agree with LA-DSA.