Smaller egress windows in retrofit

[Yikes]

I have a not-for-profit affordable housing client that is renovating the tired-looking exterior of some old apartments. The apartment bedroom windows do not meet current code for emergency egress, but they believe it was legally permitted in the 1950’s.

These windows on the apartments have lead-based paint, and the paint removal process on the window frame and trim would be so extensive that they would dislocate the tenants during the renovation, which they cannot afford to do. Some window subcontractors have presented a retrofit window alternative that would essentially fit inside the existing aluminum–frame window opening. The problem is, the frame makes the already-too-small egress window opening about 3” smaller in each direction.

If this were in your jurisdiction, what would you recommend? could you "grandfather" the replacement windows in? Keep in mind they cannot afford to tear out the old windows and frames.

 

[High Desert]

Re: Smaller egress windows in retrofit

I would not allow the windows to have the opening any smaller than the original.

 

[Rider Rick]

Re: Smaller egress windows in retrofit

I would not allow the windows to have the opening any smaller than the original.

I agree with High Desert, can they change the egress windows to casements?

Rick

 

[Heaven]

Re: Smaller egress windows in retrofit

No smaller. Try to go for casements, and also look at how many of those windows actually need to be (or reach for) egress size (just one in each bedroom etc). They may only need to replace half or less. If they don't match, oh well.

 

[Lou Marks]

Re: Smaller egress windows in retrofit

First, what code are you using. IBC, IRC or the IEBC? Under the IEBC it can be permitted. :idea:

 

[brudgers]

Re: Smaller egress windows in retrofit

I would not allow the windows to have the opening any smaller than the original.

OK, I'll play.

What section of the code will you cite?

 

[brudgers]

Re: Smaller egress windows in retrofit

I have a not-for-profit affordable housing client that is renovating the tired-looking exterior of some old apartments. The apartment bedroom windows do not meet current code for emergency egress, but they believe it was legally permitted in the 1950’s.These windows on the apartments have lead-based paint, and the paint removal process on the window frame and trim would be so extensive that they would dislocate the tenants during the renovation, which they cannot afford to do. Some window subcontractors have presented a retrofit window alternative that would essentially fit inside the existing aluminum–frame window opening. The problem is, the frame makes the already-too-small egress window opening about 3” smaller in each direction.

If this were in your jurisdiction, what would you recommend? could you "grandfather" the replacement windows in? Keep in mind they cannot afford to tear out the old windows and frames.

There's no such thing as an "egress window"...at least not in the IBC.

 

[Lou Marks]

Re: Smaller egress windows in retrofit

It is somewhat subjective. Replacing windows within existing frames allows the frames to be removal top and bottom. This certainally would be and increase in life safety. Using a fixed top sash would be questionable. I believe there has been a interpretation on this or it is in the comentary. In and case depending on level of repairs, it is a common practice and is withing the Federal winterization guidelines. However, bottom line is each AHJ must make the final decision.

 

[brudgers]

Re: Smaller egress windows in retrofit

Do you think lead poisoning is safer?

 

[Heaven]

Re: Smaller egress windows in retrofit

There's no such thing as an "egress window"...at least not in the IBC.

By god he's right. Is the building IRC or IBC? Has your jurisdiction adopted any other codes (LSC?)

 

[texasbo]

Re: Smaller egress windows in retrofit

2006 IBC, Section 1026 Emergency Escape and Rescue, 1026.2 Minimum size. Same in IRC and IBC.

Can we take a leap and assume that there are no doors complying with 1026, and that the building is not sprinklered, otherwise the question would not have been asked?

 

[texasbo]

Re: Smaller egress windows in retrofit

First, what code are you using. IBC, IRC or the IEBC? Under the IEBC it can be permitted. :idea:

Lou, help me with this; I only have a 2003 IEBC. In the 2003, even if it's classified as a "repair", 405 doesn't allow a reduction in compliance.

What section of the IEBC allows replacement with smaller, non-code compliant Emergency Escape and Rescue openings?

 

[JBI]

Re: Smaller egress windows in retrofit

texasbo - Go to this link and save in your favorites, then you'll have all of the codes at your fingertips... http://publicecodes.citation.com/icod/index.htm

IMHO, the clear openings can not be made smaller.

(for those who wanted Code sections cited... from the 2006 IEBC)

So, you have a... SECTION 403 ALTERATION—LEVEL 1

403.1 Scope.

Level 1 alterations include the removal and replacement or the covering of existing materials, elements, equipment, or fixtures using new materials, elements, equipment, or fixtures that serve the same purpose.

Which means... 403.2 Application.

Level 1 alterations shall comply with the provisions of Chapter 6.

Therefore... SECTION 604 MEANS OF EGRESS

604.1 General.

Repairs shall be done in a manner that maintains the level of protection provided for the means of egress.

I did check Chapters 1 and 3 for relief but did not find it. There is always appeal and/or variance/waiver, which do NOT include depositions, by the way.

 

[texasbo]

Re: Smaller egress windows in retrofit

JD: I completely agree; I went through all 3 levels of alteration, and could find nothing in the IEBC. Also, like I said, even if you called it a repair, which in my opinion, it is not, you get no relief.

Unless there is something else in the IEBC, a code which I am not very familiar with, I cannot imagine that anyone would even consider reducing the size of an already noncompliant Emergency Escape and Rescue Opening.

 

[Lou Marks]

Re: Smaller egress windows in retrofit

If one goes from non-removal sashes to removal sashes is not the level of safety not reduced. I also belied that commentary covers this issue. It may also be unique to Virginia, after all each state make changes. Historic houses have very narrow windows and can not be changed. One must look at all the issues.

 

[jim baird]

Re: Smaller egress windows in retrofit

Hello.

brudgers said it.

Egress windows only apply in IRC, which stops at duplexes.

re lead:

Regrettably, if there is federal money involved, an abatement should occur. Replacement sash will leave frames, which likely have leaded paint if the sash do.

I once endured some lead-based paint inspector training, and learned that the best any of us can do anywhere to prevent lead poisoning is to wash our hands.

I am very skeptical of the intent of lead abatement regulation.

Can you just "encapsulate" the existing lead paint, as they say in asbestos abatement?

Good luck.

 

[texasbo]

Re: Smaller egress windows in retrofit

Hello.Egress windows only apply in IRC, which stops at duplexes.

Jim, what's your interpretation of 1026.2, 2006 IBC?

 

[brudgers]

Re: Smaller egress windows in retrofit

First, what code are you using. IBC, IRC or the IEBC? Under the IEBC it can be permitted. :idea:

Lou, help me with this; I only have a 2003 IEBC. In the 2003, even if it's classified as a "repair", 405 doesn't allow a reduction in compliance.

What section of the IEBC allows replacement with smaller, non-code compliant Emergency Escape and Rescue openings?

Non-compliant to non-compliant isn't a reduction in compliance.

 

[brudgers]

Re: Smaller egress windows in retrofit

Therefore... SECTION 604 MEANS OF EGRESS

604.1 General.

Repairs shall be done in a manner that maintains the level of protection provided for the means of egress.

First windows are never a means of egress (think exit access, exit, exit discharge) they are a means of escape.

Secondly, even if you misconstrue the code to include emergency escape and rescue openings as a means of egress, the current windows do not provide one so there is no reduction in protection.

A typical window replacement has no effect on the existing level of protection afforded by the means of egress...and again in this case there isn't an existing compliant means of escape either.

 

[texasbo]

Re: Smaller egress windows in retrofit

Non-compliant to non-compliant isn't a reduction in compliance.

You're exactly right! And if they were replacing noncompliant windows with the same noncompliant windows, they'd be just fine by code.

But they aren't and they're not. Noncompliant to even less compliant is indeed a reduction in compliance. You know, kinda like when you're $500 in debt and you gamble away another $500. You go from broke to more broke.

 

[brudgers]

Re: Smaller egress windows in retrofit

There's no such thing as an "egress window"...at least not in the IBC.

By god he's right. Is the building IRC or IBC? Has your jurisdiction adopted any other codes (LSC?)

There isn't such a thing as an "egress window" in the IRC either, if that's where you were going.

 

[brudgers]

Re: Smaller egress windows in retrofit

Non-compliant to non-compliant isn't a reduction in compliance.

You're exactly right! And if they were replacing noncompliant windows with the same noncompliant windows, they'd be just fine by code.

Please provide a code citation for your position.

 

[steveray]

Re: Smaller egress windows in retrofit

First windows are never a means of egress (think exit access, exit, exit discharge) they are a means of escape.Secondly, even if you misconstrue the code to include emergency escape and rescue openings as a means of egress, the current windows do not provide one so there is no reduction in protection.

A typical window replacement has no effect on the existing level of protection afforded by the means of egress...and again in this case there isn't an existing compliant means of escape either.

Therefore... SECTION 604 MEANS OF EGRESS

604.1 General.

Repairs shall be done in a manner that maintains the level of protection provided for the means of egress.

First windows are never a means of egress (think exit access, exit, exit discharge) they are a means of escape.

Secondly, even if you misconstrue the code to include emergency escape and rescue openings as a means of egress, the current windows do not provide one so there is no reduction in protection.

A typical window replacement has no effect on the existing level of protection afforded by the means of egress...and again in this case there isn't an existing compliant means of escape either.

Why are they covered in Chapter 10 then? They are required, and a reduction in size is a reduction in compliance.

 

[Mule]

Re: Smaller egress windows in retrofit

I believe these sections say you can't make the windows smaller.

2006 IBC

SECTION 115

UNSAFE STRUCTURES AND EQUIPMENT

115.1 Conditions. Structures or existing equipment that are or

hereafter become unsafe, insanitary or deficient because of

inadequate means of egress facilities, inadequate light and ventilation,

or which constitute a fire hazard, or are otherwise dangerous

to human life or the public welfare, or that involve

illegal or improper occupancy or inadequate maintenance,

shall be deemed an unsafe condition. Unsafe structures shall be

taken down and removed or made safe, as the building official

deems necessary and as provided for in this section. A vacant

structure that is not secured against entry shall be deemed

unsafe.

SECTION 1026

EMERGENCY ESCAPE AND RESCUE

1026.1 General. In addition to the means of egress required by

this chapter, provisions shall be made for emergency escape

and rescue in Group R and I-1 occupancies. Basements and

sleeping rooms below the fourth story above grade plane shall

have at least one exterior emergency escape and rescue opening

in accordance with this section.

1026.2 Minimum size. Emergency escape and rescue openings

shall have a minimum net clear opening of 5.7 square feet

(0.53 m2).Exception: The minimum net clear opening for emergency

escape and rescue grade-floor openings shall be 5 square

feet (0.46 m2).