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Toilet & sink overlap

Discussion in 'Accessibility' started by e hilton, Sep 6, 2019.

  1. e hilton

    e hilton Bronze Member

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    ok, probably correctly titled “water closet and lavatory” ...
    where can i find what is allowed with regard to overlapping the clearances around the potty and sink in a commercial restroom (not residential). For front approach the toilet requires 48” w x 66” d and the sink requires 30” x 48”. I thought i had read somewhere that the sink can extend into the toilet space as long as it is no closer than 18”.
     
  2. Ty J.

    Ty J. Sawhorse

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    If an accessible water closet, you cannot have the lavatory within the minimum clear floor space.

    A117.1-2009
    604.3.1 Size

    Clearance around a water closet shall be 60 inches (1525 mm) minimum measured perpendicular from the side wall and 56 inches (1420 mm) minimum measured perpendicular from the rear wall.Figure 604.3.1 Size of Clearance at Water Closets
    [​IMG]
    604.3.2 Overlap

    The required clearance around the water closet shall be permitted to overlap the water closet, associated grab bars, dispensers, sanitary napkin disposal units, coat hooks, shelves, accessible routes, clear floor space and clearances required at other fixtures, and the turning space. No other fixtures or obstructions shall be located within the required water closet clearance.

    EXCEPTION: In residential dwelling units, a lavatory complying with 606 shall be permitted on the rear wall 18 inches (455 mm) minimum from the water closet centerline where the clearance at the water closet is 66 inches (1675 mm) minimum measured perpendicular from the rear wall.


    Even if the water closet is not accessible, it is most likely that the lavatory still is. In that case, the typical clear floor space is required.

    606.2 Clear Floor Space

    A clear floor space complying with 305, positioned for a forward approach, and knee and toe clearance complying with 306 shall be provided.

    EXCEPTIONS: .... (MANY, see code as not listed in this post)
    305.3 Size

    The clear floor or ground space shall be 30 inches (760 mm) minimum by 48 inches (1220 mm) minimum.Figure 305.3 Clear Floor or Ground Space
    [​IMG]
     
  3. Ty J.

    Ty J. Sawhorse

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    You may also be thinking of the following from the IPC (2015)

    405.3.1 Water Closets, Urinals, Lavatories and Bidets

    A water closet, urinal, lavatory or bidet shall not be set closer than 15 inches (381 mm) from its center to any side wall, partition, vanity or other obstruction, or closer than 30 inches (762 mm) center to center between adjacent fixtures. There shall be not less than a 21-inch (533 mm) clearance in front of the water closet, urinal, lavatory or bidet to any wall, fixture or door. Water closet compartments shall be not less than 30 inches (762 mm) in width and not less than 60 inches (1524 mm) in depth for floormounted water closets and not less than 30 inches (762 mm) in width and 56 inches (1422 mm) in depth for wallhung water closets.
     
  4. e hilton

    e hilton Bronze Member

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    Is that from IPC or ADA?
     
  5. Builder Bob

    Builder Bob Sawhorse

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    ADA...go to ADA.gov
     
  6. e hilton

    e hilton Bronze Member

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    Found this ...

    603.2.2 Overlap. Required clear floor spaces, clearance at fixtures, and turning space shall be permitted to overlap.
     
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  7. steveray

    steveray Sawhorse

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    TyJ pretty much nailed what I was thinking...
     
  8. ADAguy

    ADAguy Sawhorse

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    IPC
     
  9. Tim Mailloux

    Tim Mailloux Registered User

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    Not sure what version of ANSI this reference is from, but in the 2009 version 603.2.2 is for door swings. The clearance overlap section for toilet rooms is 604.3.3 and it specifically states that no other fixtures can be located with in the required water closet clearance.

    604.3.3 Clearance Overlap
    The required clearance around the water closet shall be permitted to overlap the water closet, associated grab bars, dispensers, sanitary napkin disposal units, coat hooks, shelves, accessible routes, clear floor space and clearances required at other fixtures, and the turning space. No other fixtures or obstructions shall be located within the required water closet clearance.
     
  10. e hilton

    e hilton Bronze Member

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    Ok, to clarify ... i dont want to locate the sink within the potty clearance footprint, but i do want the clearances to overlap. My archy is telling me the clearances have to be discrete.
     
  11. steveray

    steveray Sawhorse

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    The lav space, but not the lav, can be in the W/C space.....
     
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  12. Ty J.

    Ty J. Sawhorse

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    A clearance can overlap another clearance. Only performing one task at a time.

    If your arch can't figure that out, how is he doing the 60" turning space? As an example, turning spaces almost always overlap with a fixture or door clear floor space.
     
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  13. Ty J.

    Ty J. Sawhorse

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    See the image below as an example of overlapping clear floor spaces.

    [​IMG]
     
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  14. Yikes

    Yikes Gold Member

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  15. Rick18071

    Rick18071 Sawhorse

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    It always bothered me that you could have a shelf unit as pictured take up a lot of space between the toilet and the sink but you can't have a small instant water heater hung on the wall there.

    [​IMG]
     
  16. ADAguy

    ADAguy Sawhorse

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    extends out 12 - 15" from face of wall if between WC & lav! would prevent rolling to wall if WC is a flushometer type.
     
  17. Yikes

    Yikes Gold Member

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    Exactly. It's crazy. though it is practically unworkable, it is technically legal because ADAS 604.3.2 (and CBC 11B) allows "shelves" to overlap the required W.C. clearance space.
     
  18. mark handler

    mark handler Sawhorse

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    When they say shelves, they are not saying a rack
    [​IMG]
     
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  19. Rick18071

    Rick18071 Sawhorse

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    What does it matter what kind of shelf. a 1' x 3' shelf takes the same amount of floor space no matter what kind of shelf it is.
     
  20. mark handler

    mark handler Sawhorse

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    you can wheel under mine.....
     

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