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Trees

F

Frank

SILVER MEMBER
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
1,189
Location
Montpelier, VA
Hi allBeen doing Irene damage assesments and a common thread to the damage suffered here is large trees. We have hundreds of tree hits with damages. Very little wind damage other than a few shingles, flashing/coping, or localized siding.Is it time for a code change to restrict trees in excess of 12 inch caliper 5 ft off the ground to be no less than their height from the building?At least 3 fatalities in buildings in the state from tree hits.

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Frank said:
Is it time for a code change to restrict trees in excess of 12 inch caliper 5 ft off the ground to be no less than their height from the building?
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Even if trees could read, I doubt they would pull permits.
 
Coug Dad said:
Or how about a code change banning wind storms! Do you move the house or move the tree
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When it comes to ICC, either is easier than moving the mind.
 
Next thing the news will be telling us is that maple syrup will be higher this year, I hate that corn syrup crap!

Building Code change?

IZC code maybe, then you'll have to adopt it!

pc1
 
That would certainly be an interesting code to try to get passed! It would certainly run counter to many existing regulations that require preservation of trees, especially in historic districts. In this area some communities even require a permit to be pulled when removing a tree, even if it's diseased and even then they place requirements about planting replacements!

Of course I'm sure developers would love it because it could just clear-cut everything when starting a project!
 
Frank said:
Hi allIs it time for a code change to restrict trees in excess of 12 inch caliper 5 ft off the ground to be no less than their height from the building?
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Short answer is no.

Trees that are very close to a house will do less damage than those that are about 1/2 their height away.

This is way beyond the reach of the building code. I am from the Oregon/Washington area. We have trees in excess of 150 feet tall in residential areas.

What you are proposing would be close to absurd. There are countless instances where trees are within striking distance of 2 lots away.
 
We have hundreds of tree hits with damages
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Look on the positive side. People will rebuild which will stimulate your local economy. You always here about the fiscal loss due to a natural disaster but on the flip side there will be re-construction, products and materials purchased people working.
 
righter101 said:
Short answer is no.Trees that are very close to a house will do less damage than those that are about 1/2 their height away.

This is way beyond the reach of the building code. I am from the Oregon/Washington area. We have trees in excess of 150 feet tall in residential areas.

What you are proposing would be close to absurd. There are countless instances where trees are within striking distance of 2 lots away.
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Our experience has been with Isabel and Irene that if the top third of the uprooted tree hits the house the house can usually hold it with minimal damage, if the bottom third hits it then it acts like a pair of sissors and splits the house the weight of the crown acting with a longer lever arm. Broken off large limbs are more of a danger from trees close to house as well. Many of the trees doing the damage are the neighbor's tree.

Precident for regulating vegetation around the house is in the IUWIC with defensible areas.

You could also use tree resistant construction techniques if had closer trees.

This modest proposal is more poking fun at the braced wall fiasco and pointing out that there are hazards that result in more damaged and destroyed buildings and deaths and injuries than some of the items we regulate beyond the point of diminishing returns. Vehicle hits, land and air also result in more condemmend buildings than direct wind or fire but we dont regulate or defend against them. It makes no sense to regulate clean wind or in costal zones wind with small missiles and ignore the elephant in the room of large trees--some of these oaks are over 60 inch caliper.
 
You all do have a very good extension forester up there, might be worth getting him some damage pics for a public awareness message. We were looking at the massive red maple by the house here. It took a pretty good hit in Hugo and then the ice storm of '93. I had hoped it would outlive me but it's coming down this winter. The flip side is that every time I open up the woods the remaining trees are more apt to windthrow.
 
Frank said:
Our experience has been with Isabel and Irene that if the top third of the uprooted tree hits the house the house can usually hold it with minimal damage, if the bottom third hits it then it acts like a pair of sissors and splits the house the weight of the crown acting with a longer lever arm. Broken off large limbs are more of a danger from trees close to house as well. Many of the trees doing the damage are the neighbor's tree. Precident for regulating vegetation around the house is in the IUWIC with defensible areas. You could also use tree resistant construction techniques if had closer trees. This modest proposal is more poking fun at the braced wall fiasco and pointing out that there are hazards that result in more damaged and destroyed buildings and deaths and injuries than some of the items we regulate beyond the point of diminishing returns. Vehicle hits, land and air also result in more condemmend buildings than direct wind or fire but we dont regulate or defend against them. It makes no sense to regulate clean wind or in costal zones wind with small missiles and ignore the elephant in the room of large trees--some of these oaks are over 60 inch caliper.
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Obviously, Andrew didn't hit Virginia.
 
Frank said:
Hi allBeen doing Irene damage assesments and a common thread to the damage suffered here is large trees. We have hundreds of tree hits with damages. Very little wind damage other than a few shingles, flashing/coping, or localized siding.

Is it time for a code change to restrict trees in excess of 12 inch caliper 5 ft off the ground to be no less than their height from the building?

At least 3 fatalities in buildings in the state from tree hits.
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Sorry Frank,

Folks build under trees cause they want to. Folks build and then plant tree cause they like shade. More rules ain't the solution. 'sides we need the remodel/repair business right now.

Bill
 
brudgers said:
Obviously, Andrew didn't hit Virginia.
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We are over 100 miles inland so Andrew type winds are unlikely and not designed for here (90 mph wind zone)

Buildings in high wind coastal zones should be engineered.

The braced wall section language in the 2012 IRC has serious issues and needs yet another rework.

Note this is "a modest proposal" in the Swiftian sense.
 
Frank said:
We are over 100 miles inland so Andrew type winds are unlikely and not designed for here (90 mph wind zone) Buildings in high wind coastal zones should be engineered. The braced wall section language in the 2012 IRC has serious issues and needs yet another rework. Note this is "a modest proposal" in the Swiftian sense.
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The IRC doesn't need another rework. The Icodes need to be pitched.

Your proposal is far too modest.
 
around here, everyone loves street trees (and some of them are BIG old trees); they fall into houses, into the streets (tearing up sidewalks), hitting houses, cars, electrical lines.. some of the streets are still blocked today.

Can't always regulate stupid
 
"Can't always regulate stupid"

Hey Peach, Think about that comment for even a minute!

Trees and folks have been working it out for many millennia. Are you suggesting that code officials can solve the conflict that many generations of evolution weren't even concerned with??!??!

I'll wager that Robin of Loxley lost a few men to the trees they sheltered under without blaming Sherwood Forest.

Bill
 
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You have to have something for the illegals and the gypsy travelers to do...I say plant trees!
 
DRP said:
. . . I had hoped it would outlive me but it's coming down this winter. The flip side is that every time I open up the woods the remaining trees are more apt to windthrow.
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Good points; it takes years for healthy trees to develop the strength to withstand new exposure to elements; additionally many trees that cause damage are poorly maintained and are left standing well beyond their life expectancy.

Note “Tree selection and planting”; http://pubs.ext.vt.edu/430/430-029/430-029.html

 
AH HA my friends the ICC is ahead of us all

From a Wildland Urban Interface Code near you

Finding 4

The seasonal climatic conditions during the late summer and fall create numerous serious difficulties regarding the control of and protection against fires in the [JURISDICTION] . The hot, dry weather typical of this area in summer and fall, coupled with [iDENTIFY ADDITIONAL CLIMATIC CONDITIONS] frequently results in wildfires that threaten or could threaten the [JURISDICTION]Wow.

Although some code requirements, such as fire-resistive roof classification, have a direct bearing on building survival in a wildland fire situation, others, such as residential automatic sprinklers, may also have a positive effect. In dry climate on low humidity days, many materials are much more easily ignited. More fires are likely to occur and any fire, once started, can expand extremely rapidly. Residential automatic sprinklers can arrest a fire starting within a structure before the fire is able to spread to adjacent brush and structures.

Seasonal winds also have the potential for interfering with emergency vehicle access, delaying or making impossible fire responses, because of toppling of extensive plantings of [TYPE OF TREES] trees. The trees are subject to uprooting in strong winds due to relatively small root bases compared to the tree itself.

The aforementioned problems support the imposition of fire-protection requirements greater than those set forth in the [iNTERNATIONAL BUILDING CODE OR INTERNATIONAL FIRE CODE].

My Generator is Still Humming and will be throught the weekend

Powering down for now
 
Ban all trees. Someone like me - governmental employee making below the median income for the area - thinks it's cute to plant a cheap maple tree in the yard because it provides good shade. But fast forward 20 years, and I'm still a stupid government schmuck and now the tree's 80 feet tall and has ruined my roof and my neighbor's roof, and I can't afford the $3,500 to have it cut down. Wind storm hits and limbs fall through my roof and the neighbor's roof. Really smart. Bottom line: Trees belong in the woods - not in a 10,000 s.f. yard.
 
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