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two architects - one for design , another for construction

Discussion in 'Architectural & Engineering Topics' started by Kevin0616, May 14, 2020.

  1. khsmith55

    khsmith55 Bronze Member

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    Kevin, being the Owner creates another set of possible problems for you. If you decide to "fire" the original Architect mid-stream of the design and Construction Documents be cordial and up-front with her, DO NOT go behind her back and hire another Architect without her knowledge. I suggest you enter into a written Termination Agreement with her giving a "limited" release of Copyright, otherwise you may be opening yourself and the future Architect to civil liabilities (i.e. copyright infringement lawsuit). If you terminate her AFTER the Construction Documents are complete it probably isn't a Copyright infringement. I suggest you seek competent Legal Council to guide you.

    Ken
     
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  2. Mark K

    Mark K Platinum Member

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    Why do building officials want to regulate engineers and architects?

    Why do you refuse to accept the reality that as far as the building department is concerned if the building fails to comply with the building regulations the building department can only take action against the building owner? It would be interesting to see the contractor's response if the building department sued the contractor because the building he constructed did not comply with the construction documents. The building department would be laughed out of court. Contractors play hardball.

    Please note that the IBC does not have any requirement requiring a certification by the design professional. Such requests by building departments are illegal. These certification requirements appear to be an attempt to make the design professional responsible for the completed work of others over which the design professional has no real control. If this is a misguided attempt by the building department to limit their liability it should be recognized that in most states the building department has no liability for their failure to identify code violations.
     
  3. Kevin0616

    Kevin0616 Registered User

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  4. Mark K

    Mark K Platinum Member

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    Owner contractor contracts regularly address who owns the construction documents and how the client can use them. In any case that is not the concern of the building department. The building department just needs to focus on weather the design complies with the code and was the building constructed in accordance of the code.
     
  5. mark handler

    mark handler Sawhorse

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    Done all the time
    Design Architect may create great designs but cannot, or He/She does not want to, produce working drawings.
    Turns it over to an architect that will produce the product.
    OR
    Design Architect is not Licensed in that state.
    Turns it over to an architect that is licensed in that state.
    OR
    Many large corporations have architects that produce prototypical stores or hotels
    Local Architects, take local responsibility for them.

    There are also other cases, AIA did a White Paper Study on this 20 years ago.....
    Done all the time

    IN ALL CASES, PERSON SIGNING THE DRAWINGS IS RESPONSIBLE.
    Any agreement or disagreement is a civil matter, between them.
     
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  6. Paul Sweet

    Paul Sweet Sawhorse

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    It is always best if the two architects have an agreement between them, to reduce finger-pointing when (not if) something goes wrong during construction.
     
  7. ADAguy

    ADAguy Registered User

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    E & O question, how does the contract read as to who is responsible for "methods & means vs code compliance" acceptance?
    Is design architect indemnifying the "observation" architect for acceptance of design? Who responds to RFI's?
     
  8. tbz

    tbz Silver Member

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    As usual late to the party, but I have 5 projects on my desk that have multipal Architects on the projects', as noted by Mark, very common for one firm to be listed as the "Concept Design" and then one listed as Project of Record who prepares and seals the drawings.

    Think in reverse, AOR highers Design firm to produce design and then their firm makes it work for compliance and oversees moving forward, but both have touched the project.

    I have a client, who's client always uses one of two interior design firms to design the entire multi building living structure and then the owner hires afterwards a local Architect and a separate Engineering firm to make sure the design complies with all local AHJ requirements and to seal the drawings for submittals. The true design firm never is listed on any of the drawings sent to the AHJ.

    Also look at the simple portion, I could be wrong here, but does not the code section refer to AOR, not "AOR's firm", and as thus it's a single AOR's Lic. Stamped on the drawings even though the firms name is in the title block. Hence the true AOR is who stamped it, does every AHJ look to verify that the letter head is correct and a seal is attached, or do they check to verify every RFI has the same exact name as the AOR on permit application?

    As thus if the AOR passes on, quiets a firm, has parted the company or retires before a project is completed, in your question who takes over? Is the project mothballed and started from scratch now, just because of one person's name and stamp on the submittal documents?.

    This is really a legal question the OP, posted in contract law, The simple question becomes who owns the copyrights for permitting and moving forward.

    Architect "A" designs the project and provides you with drawings, what does the project owners contract with that architect say they can do with those drawings?

    Architect "B" agrees to take on the project moving forward, they are going to want assurances in writing that they are authorized to use those drawings, as is once they review them to make sure they agree with the design and that it complies with all requirements to be permitted and built.

    Personally I work on the owners side everyday with many clients, specific to div 57000, and many architects on the same project.

    Got one now, one design architect with 3 primary contractors, each Pri/C has their own architect hired by the owner to talk and deal with the primary, but all the RFI's come from the lower Pri/c architects all the time. Never see anything come from the specific AOR by name, ever, for rfi's to the AHJ.

    "One person's norm is another persons confusion" Unknown Author

    Regards - Tom
     
  9. ADAguy

    ADAguy Registered User

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    Interesting discussion, Permit architect bears responsibility subject to state law and contract language. Often the designer/architect is not licensed in the project local.
     

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