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Type I hood used as a Type II

Sifu

Sifu

SAWHORSE
Joined
Sep 3, 2011
Messages
3,326
Could a type I hood be installed as a type II, with no grease duct and no suppression? Would that violate the listing?
 
I want to say yes, because it happens all the time,,

But what do you mean by " no grease duct"

They want to use a type I hood, with exhaust duct built to type II, requirements??? If that set up no problem.
 
For the most part, if it looks like a Type I hood, it should be designed as a Type I hood. IMC 506.3 Ducts serving a Type I hood. Every section in 506.3, including sub-sections, is applicable. These are not ducts serving a Type II hood (506.4). The exhaust equipment is serving a Type I hood, so those applicable sections would apply. Other applicable sections: 507.4, 507.6, 507.1.1, 507.9, 507.10, 507.11, 507.12, and 507.13. Section 509 is the only place where it begins to be grey. Might as well just throw the suppression system in, and you would have a fully functional Type I hood.
 
rgrace said:
For the most part, if it looks like a Type I hood, it should be designed as a Type I hood. IMC 506.3 Ducts serving a Type I hood. Every section in 506.3, including sub-sections, is applicable. These are not ducts serving a Type II hood (506.4). The exhaust equipment is serving a Type I hood, so those applicable sections would apply. Other applicable sections: 507.4, 507.6, 507.1.1, 507.9, 507.10, 507.11, 507.12, and 507.13. Section 509 is the only place where it begins to be grey. Might as well just throw the suppression system in, and you would have a fully functional Type I hood.
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for the dishwasher? or enclosed oven? or
 
As it stands now (it is a moving target right now) the tenant wants to put in light duty appliances but has purchased a used type I hood and wants to use it as a type II hood without suppression or grease filters and ducts. I understand you can install a type I where a type II is required but it is a little grey as to whether all the requirements for a type I ( filters, suppression, ducts, clearances etc) would apply. I think it is ok except for a potential listing problem. This is not one of my projects, another inspector and plan reviewer have asked me and I (I guess none of us) have never encountered the question before. Thought I would put it out here to see what others think.
 
For the record, I am assuming the inspector and plan reviewer have approved the use of a type II based on the appliances and plans. It is a bakery of some sort and appears to have a menu that would support that assumption.
 
If you do not install the suppression system and grease filters then it is a Type II hood regardless of the materials used to construct it.

Type I. A kitchen hood for collecting and removing grease vapors and smoke. Such hoods are equipped with a fire suppression system.

Type II. A general kitchen hood for collecting and removing steam, vapor, heat, odors and products of combustion.

507.4 Type I materials.

Type I hoods shall be constructed of steel having a minimum thickness of 0.0466 inch (1.181 mm) (No. 18 gage) or stainless steel not less than 0.0335 inch [0.8525 mm (No. 20 MSG)] in thickness.

507.5 Type II hood materials.

Type II hoods shall be constructed of steel having a minimum thickness of 0.0296 inch (0.7534 mm) (No. 22 gage) or stainless steel not less than 0.0220 inch (0.5550 mm) (No. 24 gage) in thickness, copper sheets weighing not less than 24 ounces per square foot (7.3 kg/m2) or of other approved material and gage.
 
Sifu said:
As it stands now (it is a moving target right now) the tenant wants to put in light duty appliances but has purchased a used type I hood and wants to use it as a type II hood without suppression or grease filters and ducts. I understand you can install a type I where a type II is required but it is a little grey as to whether all the requirements for a type I ( filters, suppression, ducts, clearances etc) would apply. I think it is ok except for a potential listing problem. This is not one of my projects, another inspector and plan reviewer have asked me and I (I guess none of us) have never encountered the question before. Thought I would put it out here to see what others think.
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No problem

You see type II appliances under type I hoods all the time!!!!!!

An oven next to a deep fat fryer or whatever mix match you want
 
It meets the minimum standards for the application, therefore it is compliant.

Should they put in Type I required appliances down the road, the conversion will likely be simpler.
 
New in the 2015 IMC, note the last section of the section: 507.1 General. Commercial kitchen exhaust hoods shall comply with the requirements of this section. Hoods shall be

Type I or II and shall be designed to capture and confine cooking vapors and residues. A Type I or Type II hood shall

be installed at or above all commercial cooking appliances in accordance with Sections 507.2 and 507.3. Where any cooking

appliance under a single hood requires a Type I hood, a Type I hood shall be installed. Where a Type II hood is

required, a Type I or Type II hood shall be installed. Where a Type I hood is installed, the installation of the entire system,

including the hood, ducts, exhaust equipment and makeup air system shall comply with the requirements of Sections 506,

507, 508 and 509.
 
New in the 2015 IMC' date=' note the last section of the section: 507.1 General. Commercial kitchen exhaust hoods shall comply with the requirements of this section. Hoods shall be Type I or II and shall be designed to capture and confine cooking vapors and residues. A Type I or Type II hood shall

be installed at or above all commercial cooking appliances in accordance with Sections 507.2 and 507.3. Where any cooking

appliance under a single hood requires a Type I hood, a Type I hood shall be installed. Where a Type II hood is

required, a Type I or Type II hood shall be installed. Where a Type I hood is installed, the installation of the entire system,

including the hood, ducts, exhaust equipment and makeup air system shall comply with the requirements of Sections 506,

507, 508 and 509.
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Looking at 506,7,8,9. Wondering if 507.1 is poorly written or written correctly ???
 
New in the 2015 IMC' date=' note the last section of the section: 507.1 General. Commercial kitchen exhaust hoods shall comply with the requirements of this section. Hoods shall beType I or II and shall be designed to capture and confine cooking vapors and residues. A Type I or Type II hood shall

be installed at or above all commercial cooking appliances in accordance with Sections 507.2 and 507.3. Where any cooking

appliance under a single hood requires a Type I hood, a Type I hood shall be installed. Where a Type II hood is

required, a Type I or Type II hood shall be installed. Where a Type I hood is installed, the installation of the entire system,

including the hood, ducts, exhaust equipment and makeup air system shall comply with the requirements of Sections 506,

507, 508 and 509.
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No cda, I'd call that clarification.
 
IMC 102.8 Hood listing supercedes code.
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Where is the requirement that the hood has to be listed?....I am with MT, The grease filters and duct and suppression are what make it a Type I hood, if it is "fabricated like" a Type I it would meet a II
 
Steveray, there is no requirement that a hood has to be listed. I would interpret the new section to mean that IF a LISTED Type I hood is installed, all of the requirements for a type I hood need to be met, such as duct construction, exhaust fan construction and location, clearance to combustibles for both hood and duct, etc. I would also require all type I criteria to be met if it is an unlisted hood that meets all of the code requirements for unlisted type I hood construction, which includes grease filters. "If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck...."
 
This is a great thread, thank you all, the comments have been super helpful. I think this is sort of related to our specific puzzle to solve. We've been looking close at Type 1 vs Type 2 hood requirements supporting panini grills and sandwich steamers. It appears that way back in the day (about twenty years ago) panini grills got popular at Panera and similar places, and were often out in the open on a counter and perhaps under Type 2 as extra vs minimum required. Fast forward to present, it appears due to (refreshed) fire code and mechanical code and health code details pretty much specify heat and moisture criteria for Type 2 - anything with potential smoke or miscible great goes right to Type 1 (albeit fire suppression not needed for panini grills). It look to me like ventilation and exhaust grey areas or gaps closed around panini grills. To solve the "small appliance" use case, it appears lighter duty Type 1 vent hood equipment with appropriate NFPA and UL and NSF certs fit this middle ground use case for panini grills can be purchased. This lighter duty Type 1 would include the customary grease filters but not be rated for deep frying use case. Sound about right? Thanks again!
 
Tristy said:
This is a great thread, thank you all, the comments have been super helpful. I think this is sort of related to our specific puzzle to solve. We've been looking close at Type 1 vs Type 2 hood requirements supporting panini grills and sandwich steamers. It appears that way back in the day (about twenty years ago) panini grills got popular at Panera and similar places, and were often out in the open on a counter and perhaps under Type 2 as extra vs minimum required. Fast forward to present, it appears due to (refreshed) fire code and mechanical code and health code details pretty much specify heat and moisture criteria for Type 2 - anything with potential smoke or miscible great goes right to Type 1 (albeit fire suppression not needed for panini grills). It look to me like ventilation and exhaust grey areas or gaps closed around panini grills. To solve the "small appliance" use case, it appears lighter duty Type 1 vent hood equipment with appropriate NFPA and UL and NSF certs fit this middle ground use case for panini grills can be purchased. This lighter duty Type 1 would include the customary grease filters but not be rated for deep frying use case. Sound about right? Thanks again!
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- grease
 
Any labels that identify it as a Type 1 hood should be removed if the hood and exhaust system don't meet Type 1 requirements. Otherwise a few years down the road the next tenant will assume the system is Type 1 and install fryers and other appliances that put off a lot of grease under it.
 
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