instantmessenger
Registered User
I read through this thread. I didn’t see an answer to the question of when bollards are required to be installed. In my case I’m wondering when bollards are required to protect nearby storefront.
-
Welcome to the new and improved Building Code Forum. We appreciate you being here and hope that you are getting the information that you need concerning all codes of the building trades. This is a free forum to the public due to the generosity of the Sawhorses, Corporate Supporters and Supporters who have upgraded their accounts. If you would like to have improved access to the forum please upgrade to Sawhorse by first logging in then clicking here: Upgrades
Vehicle impact bollards?
- Thread starter mtlogcabin
- Start date
More of a security thing, more of the old person misses the brake and hits the store, more of a deterrent from stealing the atm
instantmessenger
Registered User
I know what they are for and for whom they are more likely to be helpful for. I’m really looking for a code and specific section as to when and where they must be installed. If it’s distance, what distance is far away enough so they are not required? If no specific section other than 312.2 IFC and NFPA gas installation, is this more a standard of care and general liability that we as architects must include when designing?
California Plumbing Code
1208.7.1.1 Subject to Damage. Gas meters shall not be placed where they will be subjected to damage, such as adjacent to a driveway; under a fire escape; in public passages, halls, or where they will be subject to excessive corrosion or vibration. [NFPA 54:5.7.2.2]
"Shall not be placed" tells you that they can't be where they will be subjected to damage. The code does not say that they shall be protected from damage with bollards or any other physical means of protection. The building official has to make that leap. It is a somewhat odd list of places that preclude the placement of a gas meter. The words "such as" are a launch pad for a leaping building official.
1208.7.1.1 Subject to Damage. Gas meters shall not be placed where they will be subjected to damage, such as adjacent to a driveway; under a fire escape; in public passages, halls, or where they will be subject to excessive corrosion or vibration. [NFPA 54:5.7.2.2]
"Shall not be placed" tells you that they can't be where they will be subjected to damage. The code does not say that they shall be protected from damage with bollards or any other physical means of protection. The building official has to make that leap. It is a somewhat odd list of places that preclude the placement of a gas meter. The words "such as" are a launch pad for a leaping building official.
Last edited:
instantmessenger
Registered User
What about bollard placement with respect to storefront?
Paul Sweet
Sawhorse
I haven't seen any code requirement for bollards to protect storefronts. I think the GSA has standards for federal government buildings. Security people might recommend them in some cases.
Mr. Inspector
SAWHORSE
Insurance companies don't need your stinking codes!
Once my insurance company told me to build a stairway from a roof of my 100 year old investment property (2 apartments) to the connected neighbors (different owner) apartment building 3rd floor deck because there was a door that went onto my roof and someone would not be able to get off the roof if there was a fire in my building. It didn't seem to matter to the insurance company that there was no egress from the neighbors deck. I just waited 2 weeks and told the insurance company that I could not get a zoning permit to to it.
Once my insurance company told me to build a stairway from a roof of my 100 year old investment property (2 apartments) to the connected neighbors (different owner) apartment building 3rd floor deck because there was a door that went onto my roof and someone would not be able to get off the roof if there was a fire in my building. It didn't seem to matter to the insurance company that there was no egress from the neighbors deck. I just waited 2 weeks and told the insurance company that I could not get a zoning permit to to it.
It's not always the company making the request. The company has employees.... those employees can get the train off the tracks.
Years ago I got an inspection request for a hydrogen collection system in a half million sq.ft. warehouse. It consisted of a curtain hanging from the roof and two sets of exhaust fans. The four fans represented a fail-safe. The fans were generic grease hood fans. When I told them that all the equipment and all of the conduits that passed through the collection zone would have to be listed for use in a hydrogen environment they cried.
They told me that the insurance company was behind this because they had electric forklifts that needed to be charged. The curtain hung down eight feet from a roof that was forty-two feet off the floor. The collection zone was above the line where the lifts were charged. The manufacturer of the lifts stated that there is negligible hydrogen emitted for about a minute at the end of the charging cycle.
I think their maintenance man designed the hydrogen collection system. The work was done so I told them to amend the permits to state "environmental exhaust fans", remove the curtain and ignore the insurance company. They did all of that. I didn't hear from them after that.
Years ago I got an inspection request for a hydrogen collection system in a half million sq.ft. warehouse. It consisted of a curtain hanging from the roof and two sets of exhaust fans. The four fans represented a fail-safe. The fans were generic grease hood fans. When I told them that all the equipment and all of the conduits that passed through the collection zone would have to be listed for use in a hydrogen environment they cried.
They told me that the insurance company was behind this because they had electric forklifts that needed to be charged. The curtain hung down eight feet from a roof that was forty-two feet off the floor. The collection zone was above the line where the lifts were charged. The manufacturer of the lifts stated that there is negligible hydrogen emitted for about a minute at the end of the charging cycle.
I think their maintenance man designed the hydrogen collection system. The work was done so I told them to amend the permits to state "environmental exhaust fans", remove the curtain and ignore the insurance company. They did all of that. I didn't hear from them after that.
car battery question
There was another thread dealing with golf cart batteries. Is there an exception to batteries filled with electrolyte ? in a vehicle, when you have say 50 vehicles stored with battery? or what ever number pushes it past the exempt amounts for corrosive?
www.thebuildingcodeforum.com
Last edited:
EALICEA
Registered User
Your thoughts...... I have a garage that has both HVAC unit and water heater (both electric) in a room at the end of the garage, in direct path of a vehicle. The contractor is calling it a utility room. I have told him that vehicle bollards are required. The contractor is trying to tell me that the 2x4 studded wall is an approved barrier.
the code book states:
M1307.3.1 Protection from impact. Appliances shall not be installed in a location subject to vehicle damage except where protected by approved barriers.
Can I please get some insight and guidance on your interpretation of this code? Thank you in advance.
the code book states:
M1307.3.1 Protection from impact. Appliances shall not be installed in a location subject to vehicle damage except where protected by approved barriers.
Can I please get some insight and guidance on your interpretation of this code? Thank you in advance.
I agree with your contractor’s assessment that the equipment is in a utility room but not that a 2x4 stud wall is an approved barrier. The fact that the equipment is not in the garage eliminates a code requirement for protection from physical damage. You have the option to provide bollards and if the appliances were gas fired it wouldn't be a bad idea. You could also ask your wife to park on the other side of the garage.
CPC
507.13.1 Physical Damage. Appliances installed in garages, warehouses, or other areas subject to mechanical damage shall be guarded against such damage by being installed behind protective barriers or by being elevated or located out of the normal path of vehicles.
CMC
305.1.1 Physical Damage. Appliances installed in garages, warehouses, or other areas subject to mechanical damage shall be guarded against such damage by being installed behind protective barriers or by being elevated or located out of the normal path of vehicles.
CPC
507.13.1 Physical Damage. Appliances installed in garages, warehouses, or other areas subject to mechanical damage shall be guarded against such damage by being installed behind protective barriers or by being elevated or located out of the normal path of vehicles.
CMC
305.1.1 Physical Damage. Appliances installed in garages, warehouses, or other areas subject to mechanical damage shall be guarded against such damage by being installed behind protective barriers or by being elevated or located out of the normal path of vehicles.
Last edited:
mtlogcabin
SAWHORSE
If the appliances where located directly on the other side of the garage 2 X 4 wall but within the dwelling unit are they protected? Does it meet the intent of the code? I say yes and agree with the contractor.
The requirement mentioning vehicle impact protection is a carry over from the CABO Legacy code and that is one reason why you find similar same language in the IRC and IFGC. Below is from the 1982 CABO code notice it mentions heat and comfort cooling appliances that would include electrical AC units. In the Legacy codes Fuel Gas requirements where part of the plumbing and mechanical codes and protection
Impact protection is not limited to garages or vehicles or between the fuel requirements of the appliance. It can be Electric or Gas or Oil since the IMC regulates appliances and exhaust systems that contain large amounts of various gases and flammable materials that are harmful or deadly to people and the environment if not contained impact protection is required.
303.4 Protection from damage.
Appliances shall not be installed in a location where subject to mechanical damage unless protected by approved barriers.
APPLIANCE. A device or apparatus that is manufactured and designed to utilize energy and for which this code provides specific requirements.
Chapter 9 has requirements for 28 different appliances. This requirement is often overlooked or not considered when it comes to material handling equipment such as fork lifts and similar equipment
Well ICE it is a slow afternoon here in the office so I thought I might use your response and head down the rabbit hole on this subject.
The requirement mentioning vehicle impact protection is a carry over from the CABO Legacy code and that is one reason why you find similar same language in the IRC and IFGC. Below is from the 1982 CABO code notice it mentions heat and comfort cooling appliances that would include electrical AC units. In the Legacy codes Fuel Gas requirements where part of the plumbing and mechanical codes and protection
Impact protection is not limited to garages or vehicles or between the fuel requirements of the appliance. It can be Electric or Gas or Oil since the IMC regulates appliances and exhaust systems that contain large amounts of various gases and flammable materials that are harmful or deadly to people and the environment if not contained impact protection is required.
303.4 Protection from damage.
Appliances shall not be installed in a location where subject to mechanical damage unless protected by approved barriers.
APPLIANCE. A device or apparatus that is manufactured and designed to utilize energy and for which this code provides specific requirements.
Chapter 9 has requirements for 28 different appliances. This requirement is often overlooked or not considered when it comes to material handling equipment such as fork lifts and similar equipment
I removed the reference to electric powered appliances. I honestly never figured slamming a car into an electric appliance to be a big deal but when I went looking for the code I realized that it covers all appliances. Having recently replaced two HVAC systems I now think destroying a furnace is a big deal $.
Genduct
Registered User
This is an INSURANCE INSPECTOR who can go beyond the Code to assess the RISK to Their Insurance Company for a LOSS. If the Bldg Owner likes the Coverage and Cost of the Insurance they will conform to the reasonable request, if not then they can get a quote from another Carrier
EALICEA
Registered User
Thank you all for your insight.
instantmessenger
Registered User
I would go back to the design. I would look at putting more than a 2x4 wall separating the vehicle and utility room. To me that type of separation doesn't meet "the standard of care". I say this because there are things professionals like us can get sued for that aren't in the Code books, I have seen it happen. First, to me that is not an adequate separation based on the composition of the wall, there should be at minimum a 6" curb under the wall for water an fuel leaks, etc. I would say that there needs to be protection against a slow moving bump from a vehicle so that the wall doesn't fall down. Next, to address vehicle impact, (to me) to meet the standard of care for seperation, it would have to be at least 2 courses of CMU doweled and grouted solid into the slab at 16" OC. Ideally there should be 3 courses of CMU or concrete at the same (24") height. Now whether a contractor will get sued for something like this is a very different story.