• Welcome to the new and improved Building Code Forum. We appreciate you being here and hope that you are getting the information that you need concerning all codes of the building trades. This is a free forum to the public due to the generosity of the Sawhorses, Corporate Supporters and Supporters who have upgraded their accounts. If you would like to have improved access to the forum please upgrade to Sawhorse by first logging in then clicking here: Upgrades

Vehicle storage

Per the business plan, there are no large vehicles but I will include the limitations by the definition in my discussions for good measure. The limitations they provide are that all vehicles must fit within a 8' x 17' space, and they list the "approved" vehicles (see previous post). Based on the information I currently have I still believe it is an S-1. My hope is that it is suppressed and classification will just be a formality but I like to be prepared.
 
For the record and to satisfy my own nerdiness, when does "parking" become "storage"? The best analogy I can think of off the top of my head is from the IRC. An enclosed and accessible area under a stair requires a greater level of protection than an open area under a stair. So is the can of paint thinner merely "parked" under the open stair, whereas the paint thinner is "stored" under the enclosed stair? Dictionary definitions don't help, both refer to an unspecified time.
 
Storage is storage??

No time element involved ??


Storage Group S occupancy includes, among others, the use of a building or structure, or a portion thereof, for storage that is not classified as a hazardous occupancy.
 
2018 IBC

[BG] OPEN PARKING GARAGE. A structure or portion of a structure with the openings as described in Section 406.5.2 on two or more sides that is used for the parking or storage of private motor vehicles as described in Section 406.5.3.

510.3
5. The Group S-2 enclosed parking garage is used exclusively for the parking or storage of private motor vehicles

[F] 903.2.10.1 Commercial parking garages.
An automatic sprinkler system shall be provided throughout buildings used for storage of commercial motor vehicles where the fire area exceeds 5,000 square feet (464 m2).
 
Unless this parking thing is clear to everyone, seems like a good code writer needs to write some clear code,

And would be nice if all in one place.
 
Interesting there does not appear to be a similar definition for enclosed parking garages. I also realized another difference in code requirements between an S-1 and an S-2. IBC 406.4.5 requires a sloped floor unless it is an S-2. Since I think this was a former manufacturing building that might be an issue.
 
So we have an S-2, RV storage building that is almost constructed, they have sprinklers, they have just submitted to Condo all the units. would the "airspace ownership " kick this over to a private garage and require the 1-hour separation between units, as long as each unit is under the 1,000 SF? or does it stay the S-2 with just the metal between units?
 
So we have an S-2, RV storage building that is almost constructed, they have sprinklers, they have just submitted to Condo all the units. would the "airspace ownership " kick this over to a private garage and require the 1-hour separation between units, as long as each unit is under the 1,000 SF? or does it stay the S-2 with just the metal between units?
I'd argue that it should of always been an S-1.

S-2 parking garages are truely that, a parking garage. Storage of boats, RV, motorized sports equipment, etc. should fall under an S-1.

S-1 is specified as:

311.2 Moderate-Hazard Storage, Group S-1
Storage Group S-1 occupancies are buildings occupied for storage uses that are not classified as Group S-2, including, but not limited to, storage of the following: ...

S-2 is specified as:

311.3 Low-Hazard Storage, Group S-2
Storage Group S-2 occupancies include, among others, buildings used for the storage of noncombustible materials such as products on wood pallets or in paper cartons with or without single thickness divisions; or in paper wrappings. Such products are permitted to have a negligible amount of plastic trim, such as knobs, handles or film wrapping. Group S-2 storage uses shall include, but not be limited to, storage of the following: ...

With the tremendous amount of fuel loading associated with boats, ATV's, and RV's (think plastics, gas, LP tanks, firewood, compressed bug spray, etc.), the hazard is not similar in nature to the defining characteristics provided in 311.3 (above). S-2 is "for the storage of noncombustible materials such as products on wood pallets or in paper cartons with or without single thickness divisions; or in paper wrappings. Such products are permitted to have a negligible amount of plastic trim, such as knobs, handles or film wrapping."

Like boats, most RV's on today's market are predominantly clad in plastics, fiberglass, and other synthetic materials that are highly combustible. By comparison, conventional automobiles are predominately metal skinned with glass. This is not to say conventional cars pose a low fuel load, but they are not as readily ignitable as a boat/RV/ATV/etc.
 
So we have an S-2, RV storage building that is almost constructed, they have sprinklers, they have just submitted to Condo all the units. would the "airspace ownership " kick this over to a private garage and require the 1-hour separation between units, as long as each unit is under the 1,000 SF? or does it stay the S-2 with just the metal between units?


Welcome

Your first question is supposed to be easy,,
Like 1+1=

Give it a day or two for responses

S-1 for sure
 
I am thinking no one hour not required.

Will you cite the section you are looking at.
 
I apologize it was issued as an S-1 with Sprinklers, so as long as it met the S-I with sprinklers, the IBC 508.4 table comment for S-2 (b) for min 1-hr for vehicles does not apply, regardless of the ownership of the air space.
 
I am thinking no one hour not required.

Will you cite the section you are looking at.
They are looking at:

406.3 Private Garages and Carports
Private garages and carports shall comply with Sections 406.3.1 through 406.3.6.

406.3.1 Classification
Private garages and carports shall be classified as Group U occupancies. Each private garage shall be not greater than 1,000 square feet (93 m2) in area. Multiple private garages are permitted in a building where each private garage is separated from the other private garages by 1-hour fire barriers in accordance with Section 707, or 1-hour horizontal assemblies in accordance with Section 711, or both.


PRIVATE GARAGE. A building or portion of a building in which motor vehicles used by the tenants of the building or buildings on the premises are stored or kept, without provisions for repairing or servicing such vehicles for profit.
Again, I'd argue that this type of building is not provided for parking, but for long-term storage and is therefore an S-1 use. Separation need not be provided between individual storage bays (similar to storage locker buildings), unless required for fire area compartmentalization (via fire barriers or fire walls).
 
And for all to note, pay particular attention to the following highlighted portion of the definition.

PRIVATE GARAGE. A building or portion of a building in which motor vehicles used by the tenants of the building or buildings on the premises are stored or kept, without provisions for repairing or servicing such vehicles for profit.

Note that the garage is associated with an on-site building providing the primary use? This is further indication that parking garages are that, a place to park for short term. Long-term storage of vehicles (RV, boat, etc.) is not the same.
 
Per 49 CFR 390.5...

Motor vehicle means any vehicle, machine, tractor, trailer, or semitrailer propelled or drawn by mechanical power and used upon the highways in the transportation of passengers or property, or any combination thereof determined by the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration, but does not include any vehicle, locomotive, or car operated exclusively on a rail or rails, or a trolley bus operated by electric power derived from a fixed overhead wire, furnishing local passenger transportation similar to street-railway service.
 
Per 49 CFR 390.5...

Motor vehicle means any vehicle, machine, tractor, trailer, or semitrailer propelled or drawn by mechanical power and used upon the highways in the transportation of passengers or property, or any combination thereof determined by the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration, but does not include any vehicle, locomotive, or car operated exclusively on a rail or rails, or a trolley bus operated by electric power derived from a fixed overhead wire, furnishing local passenger transportation similar to street-railway service.

How about construction and mining machinery like backhoes, tractors, dumps, trailer movers, etc. that never go on highways in the transportation of passengers or property?
 
My weed whacker has a full tank of gasoline. But my garden shed is not constructed with the same level of special attention suggested within this thread. Statistically speaking, when a passenger vehicle catches fire, it damages the surrounding vehicles but it is unlikely that the entire parking garage is going to become a total catastrophe. The thinking related to the "commercial vehicle" with a gross weight of 10,000 lbs is related to the fact that those vehicles typically have large fuel tanks. Meanwhile, it is rare for a fuel tank to explode under any circumstance. Unless you are driving a Gremlin and get rear-ended.

Wash your hands.

Don't let your neighbors get too close to you.

Don't drive a Gremlin.

S-2 or S-1 occupancy. Whichever is most convenient.
 
Ok my person from outer space,PC, is in town,,,

Can they park their starship in this garage?? Or does it require sprinklers?
 
The thinking related to the "commercial vehicle" with a gross weight of 10,000 lbs is related to the fact that those vehicles typically have large fuel tanks.

I don't understand why more restrictions on "commercial vehicles" because most commercial vehicles are diesel which doesn't explode and is much harder to start burning.
 
So does anyone check for this:

2015 IFC
314.4 Vehicles. Liquid- or gas-fueled vehicles, boats or other
motorcraft shall not be located indoors except as follows:
1. Batteries are disconnected.
2. Fuel in fuel tanks does not exceed one-quarter tank or 5
gallons (19 L) (whichever is least).
3. Fuel tanks and fill openings are closed and sealed to
prevent tampering.
4. Vehicles, boats or other motorcraft equipment are not
fueled or defueled within the building.
 
So does anyone check for this:

2015 IFC
314.4 Vehicles. Liquid- or gas-fueled vehicles, boats or other
motorcraft shall not be located indoors except as follows:
1. Batteries are disconnected.
2. Fuel in fuel tanks does not exceed one-quarter tank or 5
gallons (19 L) (whichever is least).
3. Fuel tanks and fill openings are closed and sealed to
prevent tampering.
4. Vehicles, boats or other motorcraft equipment are not
fueled or defueled within the building.

No. I do not. But that language is familiar to me while dealing with salvage vehicles. We require that the battery be disconnected and the fuel tanks emptied on salvage vehicles - regardless of being parked inside or outside a building.

Section 314 of the IFC is titled "Indoor Displays". I would interpret this as being a large warehouse full of motor homes and boats that are for sale and frequented by folks who are invited to come inside and look at them. Any large auto dealership would have a vehicle showroom with their latest 2020 models proudly displayed on a white porcelain tile floor. But I have never thought to ask if the fuel tank was empty or the battery disconnected.
 
Last edited:
Top