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What are permanent provisions for cooking?

Discussion in 'Code Administration' started by jar546, Jan 9, 2020.

  1. Ty J.

    Ty J. Sawhorse

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    I understand... I am providing a rebuttal argument that the provision required can be the energy source for the intended appliance and that the appliance can be the responsibility of the occupant.

    In concept, this is similar to provisions for sleeping. A bed is not a requirement; it would be up to the occupant to install their desired furniture for sleeping (bed, cot, hammock, etc.).
     
  2. steveray

    steveray Sawhorse

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    X2....I know NFPA does not consider a microwave "cooking"...
     
    jar546 likes this.
  3. ADAguy

    ADAguy Sawhorse

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    Northern CA city building code.
     
  4. TheCommish

    TheCommish Sawhorse

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    Seem like Permanent cooking is like defining obscenity and pornography

    In the summer of 1973, the Supreme Court decided a group of pornography/obscenity cases that set the standards for the future of pornography. In his Dissent in one of these cases, Justice Brennan wearily admitted:

    "Our experience since Roth requires us not only to abandon the effort to pick out obscene materials on a case-by-case basis, but also to reconsider a fundamental postulate of Roth: that there exists a definable class of sexually oriented expression that may be suppressed by the Federal and State Governments. Assuming that such a class of expression does in fact exist, I am forced to conclude that the concept of 'obscenity' cannot be defined with sufficient specificity and clarity to provide fair notice to persons who create and distribute sexually oriented materials, to prevent substantial erosion of protected speech as a byproduct of the attempt to suppress unprotected speech, and to avoid very costly institutional harms."


    source linked here
     
  5. Builder Bob

    Builder Bob Sawhorse

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    Even a stove is not permanent, whenever a remodel occurs, chances are the "appliance" is replaced - so in theory (at least) all appliances are temporary as built in range tops, built in wall ovens etc. are deigned to be removed if necessary for replacement. The only thing that will remain is the point of utility utilization (gas or electric)
    If a hood is used, components and the hood may be replaced - but generally the duct work remains unless reconfigured.
    If it is a wood burning stove - same concept, the chimney or flue will remain.

    Sometimes, I think we may be our own worst enemy whenever we over analyze and fail to let common sense dictate a peaceful harmony between code language and the code intent.

    This is a perfect case where permanent provisions are required but even appliances are not permanent. Common sense would dictate utility provisions and any other provisions that may be required such as chimney, mechanical exhaust, etc. are sufficient to indicate the intent for permanent provisions has been made.
     
  6. TheCommish

    TheCommish Sawhorse

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    NFPA staff answer to what is cooking

    The final determination on what is considered facilities for cooking will rest with your AHJ. However, in NFPA 101 cooking facilities generally applies to equipment used for the cooking of food and equipment that generates heat is connected to electricity or a fuel source (e.g. stove, oven, hot plates). Generally, an area with equipment solely for reheating food (i.e. microwave) would not be considered a cooking facility.
     
  7. Sleepy

    Sleepy Registered User

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    Fair enough, but NFPA is looking at it from a fire hazard point of view. The Building Code or an AHJ might look at it differently, depending on the goal and language of the particular paragraph.
     
  8. mark handler

    mark handler Sawhorse

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    Not even walls are permanent. But you cannot not take the words in the code to the Extreme.
    I do not know where the verbiage "permanent" is used in the building code to define an ADU or guest room.
     
  9. jar546

    jar546 *****istrator

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    I want to see where the word "provisions" means a receptacle for a stove. I would not agree.
     
  10. TheCommish

    TheCommish Sawhorse

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    NFPA 5000 a building code that uses similar language, so I would opine that is it no just fire safety
    upload_2020-1-19_10-12-44.png
     
  11. ICE

    ICE Sawhorse

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    So what would you agree with? The "Dwelling Unit" definition requires context before a limit on what would be required can be determined. If it is a house, then hookups, gas or electric for a stove along with space for the appliance. If it is an apartment for rent I would expect there to be a stove installed along with a refrigerator and cable TV.

    Here in CA. there is a recent permutation of a dwelling unit referred to as a Junior ADU. It has a defined cooking provision. Gas is not allowed and the electrical supply is limited to 120 volts. That sounds like a hot plate, rice cooker and for the upwardly mobile, a microwave. (with convection of course)
     
  12. jar546

    jar546 *****istrator

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    Provisions for cooking means appliances installed, not just receptacles. I could plug a welder into a 240v stove receptacle.
     
  13. ICE

    ICE Sawhorse

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    You could put a stove in most laundry rooms ... gas or electric ... but would you?
     

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