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What happens if a city approves a deck that seems to violate fire codes

VillageInspector said:
I'm thinking that since this seems to be a clear cut issue yet the municipality is not taking action that quite possibly this is not the clear cut issue that its being made out to be. This story seems to be all over the place yet all you are hearing from the municipality is crickets. I think if most of us on here were faced with this type of issue in our offices and there were violations we would had dealt with it long before it got to this forum, senator or no senator which makes me think that we don't yet have all of the facts because if we do it seems to me like you should be speaking with a very good land use attorney rather than us.
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I do have an attorney but I'm trying to do as much of the legwork as possible to save costs.
 
VillageInspector said:
I'm thinking that since this seems to be a clear cut issue yet the municipality is not taking action that quite possibly this is not the clear cut issue that its being made out to be. This story seems to be all over the place yet all you are hearing from the municipality is crickets. I think if most of us on here were faced with this type of issue in our offices and there were violations we would had dealt with it long before it got to this forum, senator or no senator which makes me think that we don't yet have all of the facts because if we do it seems to me like you should be speaking with a very good land use attorney rather than us.
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You definitely have the facts - I think the city does not want to lose face by admitting a mistake ...that's why they're fighting the timeliness not the violations. I just want it put right - I've told them I won't sue if they put it right. They're mad because I'm getting an advisory opinion although it may come down against me.
 
Jane said:
What would you call it? Provo city's definitions only have "patio" or "accessory building" to base this on and either way it violates their definition and/or code.
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https://www.provo.org/city-services/build-in-provo/residential-projects/decks-fences-retaining-walls




Decks:
If you want to build a deck that is attached to your home, you will need to get a building permit. You can start by reviewing and meeting the requirements of the Residential Plan Review Checklist for Additions, Remodels, Basement Finishes and Accessory Structures Submit your Building Permit and all required documentation on the Online Portal. All plans must be drawn to scale. For questions about getting a building permit for your deck, please call the Building Division
 
cda said:
Yea

Appeal there was no time limit to submit a complaint ??
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There was a time limit but it is based on determining the triggering event. The city said it was the day the permit was issued but I argued (using Fox v. Park City) that my appeal was timely based on the fact that the City refused to show me the plans and therefore I had no "actual knowledge" before the frame was in place. Fortunately, I took pictures :)
 
cda said:
https://www.provo.org/city-services/build-in-provo/residential-projects/decks-fences-retaining-walls




Decks:
If you want to build a deck that is attached to your home, you will need to get a building permit. You can start by reviewing and meeting the requirements of the Residential Plan Review Checklist for Additions, Remodels, Basement Finishes and Accessory Structures Submit your Building Permit and all required documentation on the Online Portal. All plans must be drawn to scale. For questions about getting a building permit for your deck, please call the Building Division
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I saw that which is why I knew they needed a permit but "patio" doesn't cover it based on their definition of "not higher than 30" " which is why it fits more with "Accessory Structure".
 
Where did patio come from? His permit, which is easily findable on your City's website, is clearly for a deck. It says plainly "Permit Type: Deck". And then in the description it again calls it a deck, when it says (paraphrasing) "we have a little deck and we want to make it bigger". I'm confused who called it a patio, and/or why we're talking about that?
 
JCraver said:
Where did patio come from? His permit, which is easily findable on your City's website, is clearly for a deck. It says plainly "Permit Type: Deck". And then in the description it again calls it a deck, when it says (paraphrasing) "we have a little deck and we want to make it bigger". I'm confused who called it a patio, and/or why we're talking about that?
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When I asked the city which ordinances applied to the permit they said it had been issued based on the definition of a patio. Patio or Accessory structure are the only two options in Provo City's definitions that could apply to a deck.
 
Jane said:
When I asked the city which ordinances applied to the permit they said it had been issued based on the definition of a patio. Patio or Accessory structure are the only two options in Provo City's definitions that could apply to a deck.
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ADAguy said:
Now the "fun" really begins (smiling).
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"Fun" is not what it feels like. At this point if my neighbor offered to make the deck a more modest size I would go with it but I am certain that IF I win against the city then he will need to remove it completely. That has never been what I wanted - I don't care if he has deck but a "yard size" deck in a town home community is not even close to being ok.
 
Jane said:
When I asked the city which ordinances applied to the permit they said it had been issued based on the definition of a patio. Patio or Accessory structure are the only two options in Provo City's definitions that could apply to a deck.
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This is right from the City of Provo website. All public info. (I put the X's where the name was just because, but this is the permit record of our unnamed Senator and his wife):

Application Number:
PRDK201900995
Application Type:
Deck
Application Status:
Permit(s) Issued
Property Owner's Full Name:
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Category of Work:
New
Occupancy Code:
R-3: Residential, one- and two-family
Description of Work:
There is an existing 5x8 deck off the back of our townhouse that connects to stairs to our fenced in back yard. We would like to expand the size of the deck.
Application Date:
05/28/2019
Issued Date:
07/01/2019
Expiration Date:
12/28/2019
 
great turn around time???


Application Date:
05/28/2019
Issued Date:
07/01/2019
Expiration Date:
12/28/2019
 
cda said:
great turn around time???


Application Date:
05/28/2019
Issued Date:
07/01/2019
Expiration Date:
12/28/2019
Click to expand...


JCraver said:
This is right from the City of Provo website. All public info. (I put the X's where the name was just because, but this is the permit record of our unnamed Senator and his wife):

Application Number:
PRDK201900995
Application Type:
Deck
Application Status:
Permit(s) Issued
Property Owner's Full Name:
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Category of Work:
New
Occupancy Code:
R-3: Residential, one- and two-family
Description of Work:
There is an existing 5x8 deck off the back of our townhouse that connects to stairs to our fenced in back yard. We would like to expand the size of the deck.
Application Date:
05/28/2019
Issued Date:
07/01/2019
Expiration Date:
12/28/2019
Click to expand...


As I have maintained all along, there's something wrong with this whole issue.
 
JCraver said:
This is right from the City of Provo website. All public info. (I put the X's where the name was just because, but this is the permit record of our unnamed Senator and his wife):

Application Number:
PRDK201900995
Application Type:
Deck
Application Status:
Permit(s) Issued
Property Owner's Full Name:
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Category of Work:
New
Occupancy Code:
R-3: Residential, one- and two-family
Description of Work:
There is an existing 5x8 deck off the back of our townhouse that connects to stairs to our fenced in back yard. We would like to expand the size of the deck.
Application Date:
05/28/2019
Issued Date:
07/01/2019
Expiration Date:
12/28/2019
Click to expand...

Wow! How do I get hold of that? Our zoning is R2PD not R3 (although I think R3 fits better) but a permit issued in an R3 zone should have been more restrictive. They also didn't have a 5x8 deck before ...they had a 3 foot by 5 foot concrete stoop at the top of concrete steps. Can you send me the link to that information please or instructions on how to find it?
 
ADAguy said:
misinformation or "fake News"?
City zoning maps not up to date?
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I double and triple checked with the city and I have it in writing that we're R2PD. It doesn't make much difference as if the current structure violates R2Pd rules then it definitely violates R3 rules more.
 
Jane said:
Wow! How do I get hold of that? Our zoning is R2PD not R3 (although I think R3 fits better) but a permit issued in an R3 zone should have been more restrictive. They also didn't have a 5x8 deck before ...they had a 3 foot by 5 foot concrete stoop at the top of concrete steps. Can you send me the link to that information please or instructions on how to find it?
Click to expand...

Go here: https://cvportal.provo.org/cityviewportal

Over on the right, there will be a "Application Search" you click which gets you to here: https://cvportal.provo.org/CityViewPortal/Permit/Locator

And then you can type in a name, or address, or parcel number, or whatever. In this case I entered "unnamed Senator" (not really, but hopefully you're sharp enough to pick that up...) in the search bar, which yielded 2 results. One for a deck, which I copied/pasted, and one for a mechanical permit for a different address which I'm assuming is not what we're talking about.
 
JCraver said:
Go here: https://cvportal.provo.org/cityviewportal

Over on the right, there will be a "Application Search" you click which gets you to here: https://cvportal.provo.org/CityViewPortal/Permit/Locator

And then you can type in a name, or address, or parcel number, or whatever. In this case I entered "unnamed Senator" (not really, but hopefully you're sharp enough to pick that up...) in the search bar, which yielded 2 results. One for a deck, which I copied/pasted, and one for a mechanical permit for a different address which I'm assuming is not what we're talking about.
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Got it - everything is easier with a little help from a pro!
 
ADAguy said:
OK, so now you have the smoking gun, or not?
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Well, yesterday I would have said "yes" emphatically but yesterday evening the city sent an email to the State with sworn affidavits from two of their staff members saying that they were contesting the State's decision that my appeal was timely. Fortunately, I was able to refute much of what was said in their affidavits because of emails I received from them. It was disappointing to me that the city officials lied in their affidavits. Fingers crossed that the State will not reverse their decision.

It appears that the city know that they can't support their claim that this structure is compliant with zoning code or they would have just responded to the State's request for proof that the deck is zoning compliant so if the State stand by their decision that my appeal is timely then I think I can show why the permitted structure is non compliant.

The city had the audacity to say I waited until the deck was finished before filing my appeal and the neighbor and his contractor were out a lot of money. Fortunately I could show that I asked for them to investigate the zoning when the framing was in progress. I even said in my email that I was concerned that if building progressed that my neighbor would have to spend a lot of money to make it code compliant.

This is a rollercoaster for sure!
 
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