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What happens if a city approves a deck that seems to violate fire codes

Sorry

With the board members, you get what you paid for sometimes.

Three people is a quorum??

Will have to go back and look at the rules.
 
Quorum.
A quorum of the Board shall consist of three members or alternate members. In all cases where there are only three members present, all members must cast a vote upon any action on an application or petition requiring action.

appears majority not unanimous, but you still did not have majority



If a majority of the quorum of the Board members present concurs that the evidence supports favorable findings upon an application or petition before it, or that such findings could be made if conditions and safeguards are established, the decision shall be favorable to the applicant, provided that such conditions and safeguards as may be required for a favorable finding are specified in the decision. Such safeguards and requirements shall be binding upon the applicant or petitioner and his successor and interests.
If a majority of the quorum of the Board members present concurs that the evidence does not support a favorable action or recommendation by the Board, then findings shall be specified in the decision outlining those problems or deficiencies in the application or petition which warrant such action.
If the findings of fact and conclusion
 
cda said:
Sorry

With the board members, you get what you paid for sometimes.

Three people is a quorum??

Will have to go back and look at the rules.
Click to expand...

Please let me know what you find out. It seemed crazy that it had to be unanimous because only 3 of the 5 showed up.
 
So, after the crazy meeting tonight there was one city official who came up to me and gave me a hug. As he was hugging me he said that I should email him and ask him questions since his email was not being monitored by the jerky assistant attorney now. So, here are the questions I sent as I think he was trying to let me know there were other ways of dealing with this:
1. Has Jeff obtained an amended permit for his deck?
2. Can a note be put on his file that there is a zoning concern in this neighborhood so an amended permit would need to be very carefully considered?
3. Since Jeff did not use a licensed contractor (the contractor he named was not the one he used) on an investment property can that be held against him by the city? The State are already investigating.
4. Since no inspections were done and he deviated from the permit can he be issued a certificate of occupancy?
5. When his permit runs out on Dec 28th what options do I have?
6. Is it required in Provo City to post a public notice informing the public that a permit/amended permit has been issued?

He also said if he was subpoenaed that he would be able to tell the truth.

Thoughts please my learned friends?
Thanks
 
Were you able to present the entire case, before the board???

On expired permits

Some cities will just extend them, with nothing required

Some cities make you reapply, with all documentation and fees.
 
Jane said:
So, after the crazy meeting tonight there was one city official who came up to me and gave me a hug. As he was hugging me he said that I should email him and ask him questions since his email was not being monitored by the jerky assistant attorney now. So, here are the questions I sent as I think he was trying to let me know there were other ways of dealing with this:
1. Has Jeff obtained an amended permit for his deck?
2. Can a note be put on his file that there is a zoning concern in this neighborhood so an amended permit would need to be very carefully considered?
3. Since Jeff did not use a licensed contractor (the contractor he named was not the one he used) on an investment property can that be held against him by the city? The State are already investigating.
4. Since no inspections were done and he deviated from the permit can he be issued a certificate of occupancy?
5. When his permit runs out on Dec 28th what options do I have?
6. Is it required in Provo City to post a public notice informing the public that a permit/amended permit has been issued?

He also said if he was subpoenaed that he would be able to tell the truth.

Thoughts please my learned friends?
Thanks
Click to expand...

"Yeah" a whistle blower steps forward. Rain a little and flowers may bloom.
 
cda said:
Were you able to present the entire case, before the board???

On expired permits

Some cities will just extend them, with nothing required

Some cities make you reapply, with all documentation and fees.
Click to expand...

No - they shut us down because of timliness although the attorney on the board agreed that it was timely. In the next round the burden of proof is on them so we get the opportunity to rebut anything they claim...unlike last night.
 
cda said:
Were you able to present the entire case, before the board???

On expired permits

Some cities will just extend them, with nothing required

Some cities make you reapply, with all documentation and fees.
Click to expand...
It will beed to be amended and renewed. My thought is that if he has to get a new permit then I can oppose it again.
 
Jane said:
No - they shut us down because of timliness although the attorney on the board agreed that it was timely. In the next round the burden of proof is on them so we get the opportunity to rebut anything they claim...unlike last night.
Click to expand...



Strange the whole case was not allowed to be presented

Than the vote

ok
 
cda said:
Strange the whole case was not allowed to be presented

Than the vote

ok
Click to expand...
The city wanted desperately to stop me presenting the zoning violations so they used timliness. It's the same strategy they used with the other group of people suing the city.
 
That is what many attorneys search for: failure to comply with dates, terms, etc.; technical oversights to "prevent" cases from moving forward.
"Common sense and fairness" are just words to them.
 
Jane said:
No - but they record it because it's used in court (the next step).
Click to expand...


So going through the hearing, up to your attorney

1. Did the city attorney say that a building permit should not have been issued?

2. Did the city on the first day of you questioning this, Say you can file an Appeal?

3. Most cities work on "business days"

""(2) All appeals and applications made to the Board shall be in writing, on forms prescribed by the Board and within fourteen (14) days of the action or decision appealed from by filing a Notice of Appeal with the officer from whom the appeal is taken or with the Board of Adjustment. The officer from whom the appeal was taken shall forthwith transmit to the Board of Adjustment all papers constituting the record upon which the action appealed from was taken.""


If the fourteenth day is a Saturday or Sunday, how do you file an appeal.????


So if you count business days, you might have been with in the fourteen??
 
cda said:
So going through the hearing, up to your attorney

1. Did the city attorney say that a building permit should not have been issued?

2. Did the city on the first day of you questioning this, Say you can file an Appeal?

3. Most cities work on "business days"

""(2) All appeals and applications made to the Board shall be in writing, on forms prescribed by the Board and within fourteen (14) days of the action or decision appealed from by filing a Notice of Appeal with the officer from whom the appeal is taken or with the Board of Adjustment. The officer from whom the appeal was taken shall forthwith transmit to the Board of Adjustment all papers constituting the record upon which the action appealed from was taken.""


If the fourteenth day is a Saturday or Sunday, how do you file an appeal.????


So if you count business days, you might have been with in the fourteen??
Click to expand...

1. The city attorney did not mention the fact that the permit was illegal. He was desperately trying to stop the board hearing those facts.

2. The city did not tell me until 11 days after that I had anything to appeal - until that point they told me it was a valid permit.

3. The city work on business days for their responses but on calendar days for the public. (that doesn't seem fair!)

All appeals are to be filed online but it is incredibly difficult to do it. Their are no instructions given so I had to have a staff member help me and even then it didn't upload. The staff member who filed the affidavit said he was shocked I didn't file the appeal with him but he had just told us that we needed to have all our documents before we filed the appeal online and they hadn't even allowed me to see the plans at that point.

I've just been chatting with the other group of people (I wish I was a group :) ) who are suing the city and they say that if Provo City have violated their own ordinances then there is no need for timeliness in District Court.
 
ADAguy said:
That is what many attorneys search for: failure to comply with dates, terms, etc.; technical oversights to "prevent" cases from moving forward.
"Common sense and fairness" are just words to them.
Click to expand...

So true - it is a sad way to look for justice which I believe they make an oath to do.
 
Depending on how you look at it, every defendant is entitled to a defense (as to who and how defended leaves room for much debate and appeals) unfortunately the deep pockets often win.
 
So still working thru the hearing.

Two more things

1. Just because a person sees construction and calls to see if there is a permit,,, If plans and other information is not available, that person does not know if there is a possible violation.
Unless the city wants an appeal on every construction going on, before a citizen determines there may be a problem???


2. one bit of advice to your attorney, if you decide to go forth, one of my ex prosecutors loved props, Get a simple BIG size one showing timeline.
That way it can be seen, there is no doubt what your timeline is, when the is a question on the timeline, take the pointer and point to the display.
 
cda said:
So still working thru the hearing.

Two more things

1. Just because a person sees construction and calls to see if there is a permit,,, If plans and other information is not available, that person does not know if there is a possible violation.
Unless the city wants an appeal on every construction going on, before a citizen determines there may be a problem???


2. one bit of advice to your attorney, if you decide to go forth, one of my ex prosecutors loved props, Get a simple BIG size one showing timeline.
That way it can be seen, there is no doubt what your timeline is, when the is a question on the timeline, take the pointer and point to the display.
Click to expand...


!. I agree totally - also, there is the question about if someone arrives home and a new structure has been completed within the 14 day window...can they still appeal?

2. We had submitted a timeline to the BOA and my attorney never got to use it. It was clear that two out of the three on the board had not read any documents at all regarding the appeal.
 
Good idea for the graphic aid. Maybe have a giant poster size picture if the deck viewed from your back yard. And maybe one from a drone.
 
cda said:
Get a simple BIG size one showing timeline.
That way it can be seen, there is no doubt what your timeline is, when the is a question on the timeline, take the pointer and point to the display.
Click to expand...

Good idea cda. Check with the attorney about placing the time window to file the complaint on the display as well.

I am willing to bet that two board members stayed home so a vote could not be taken.

Have you read about the guy from the UK who built a castle and hid it behind tarps and hay bales for years to try and exploit a code loophole?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...t-hidden-hay-bales-says-t-claims-sold-it.html
 
Mech said:
Good idea cda. Check with the attorney about placing the time window to file the complaint on the display as well.

I am willing to bet that two board members stayed home so a vote could not be taken.

Have you read about the guy from the UK who built a castle and hid it behind tarps and hay bales for years to try and exploit a code loophole?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...t-hidden-hay-bales-says-t-claims-sold-it.html
Click to expand...
That is crazy - I wonder why the neighbors didn't get suspicious when he had the really high stack of hay bales covered with a tarp? Some people are just legitimately weird!!
 
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