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What would you do?

mark handler said:
failure to discharge the duty could negate that immunity.
When has that been relevant? Have there been cases that succeeded against an AHJ? The issue would be a willful decision to not enforce a code provision.

If that were the happening thing....well then plss poor jurisdictions should get sued out of business.
 
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ICE said:
When has that been relevant? Have there been cases that succeeded against an AHJ? The issue would be a willful decision to not enforce a code provision.
Well that seens to be the case. It is the Building Officials responsibility to enforce the codes. This is a willful, definitive, decision Not to enforece certain code provisions the posters disagree with.

That said a two second talk with the owner might solve the issue,
 
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mark handler said:
That said a two second talk with the owner might solve the issue
With the exception of the OP, that seems to be about all you're going to get out of the crowd here.
 
ICE said:
...that seems to be about all you're going to get out of the crowd here.
If just one person gets it, all is good.... can't eliminate all the misunderstandings of the code in one thread.
 
Mark:

Do you enforce Prop 65, or leave it to private parties to bring legal actions?

Wikipedia said:
Enforcement is carried out through civil lawsuits against Proposition 65 violators. These lawsuits may be brought by the California Attorney General, any district attorney, or certain city attorneys (those in cities with a population exceeding 750,000). Lawsuits may also be brought by private parties "acting in the public interest," but only after providing notice of the alleged violation to the Attorney General, the appropriate district attorney and city attorney, and the business accused of the violation. ¹
¹ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prop_65
 
Why are you guys only looking at ADA when this is an IPC issue first and foremost which leads to an ADA issue. Many states elect to enforce accessibility.
 
conarb said:
Mark: Do you enforce Prop 65, or leave it to private parties to bring legal actions?¹ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prop_65
No, The Office of Environmental Health Hazard Assessment (OEHHA) administers the Proposition 65 program.

I would refer the resident to them. I do require a list of hazardous materials per the building and fire codes; And that becomes public.

Just so you know, In my office I have a binder of over 250 pages listing California state laws, rules and regulations I am required to address in one way or another, Prop 65 is not one of them.
 
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jar546 said:
Why are you guys only looking at ADA when this is an IPC issue first and foremost which leads to an ADA issue. Many states elect to enforce accessibility.
Because all issues that involve accessibility is clouded.

Selective enforcement, Many would have had different answers if you would have posted the question without any mention of Accessibility.

It is similar to two defendants in court, all circumstances the same except one white kid, one black, you can predict the outcome, 9 times out of ten. White suspended….black convicted….
 
mark handler said:
It is similar to two defendants in court, all circumstances the same except one white kid, one black, you can predict the outcome, 9 times out of ten. White suspended….black convicted….
With cities all over the country getting military equipment, with what's happening right now in Missouri, what are the chances that it will be used against us if we violate disability, green, or energy codes?

Business Insider said:
Because of a legal quirk, SWAT raids can be profitable. Rules on civil asset-forfeiture allow the police to seize anything which they can plausibly claim was the proceeds of a crime. Crucially, the property-owner need not be convicted of that crime. If the police find drugs in his house, they can take his cash and possibly the house, too. He must sue to get them back. Many police departments now depend on forfeiture for a fat chunk of their budgets. In 1986, its first year of operation, the federal Asset Forfeiture Fund held $93.7m. By 2012, that and the related Seized Asset Deposit Fund held nearly $6 billion.

Mr Balko contends that these forfeiture laws are "unfair on a very basic level". They "disproportionately affect low-income people" and provide a perverse incentive for police to focus on drug-related crimes, which "come with a potential kickback to the police department", rather than rape and murder investigations, which do not. They also provide an incentive to arrest suspected drug-dealers inside their houses, which can be seized, and to bust stash houses after most of their drugs have been sold, when police can seize the cash.

Kara Dansky of the American Civil Liberties Union, who is overseeing a study into police militarisation, notices a more martial tone in recent years in the materials used to recruit and train new police officers. A recruiting video in Newport Beach, California, for instance, shows officers loading assault rifles, firing weapons, chasing suspects, putting people in headlocks and releasing snarling dogs

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/why-americas-police-are-becoming-so-militarized-2014-3#ixzz3AhjXnc3P
 
conarb said:
With cities all over the country getting military equipment, with what's happening right now in Missouri, what are the chances that it will be used against us if we violate disability, green, or energy codes?
Cute.....Though I do work for the Police Cheif and we do have an M-wrap APC

Do you want that response?

Threaten my inspectors and barricade yourself and we may send a response team...
 
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With totalitarian laws like all civil rights laws even the upper classes are scared of all government employees, our first Amendment freedoms including our freedom of association has been suspended.

I built a home for a construction defects attorney in 1978, in the 90s he won the biggest construction defects case ever, $19 million against the architects and contractors who designed and built a condo project, they installed the windows with caulking, hardly a code violation, in fact in compliance with the manufacturers' installation instructions, of course we all know sealants last an average of 7 years before needing replacement.

In 2003 I remodeled the kitchen and the city drove the costs up considerably, no problem. In 2005 he wanted me to add a 200 square foot master bath on to the home, I told him that a home with glass walls like he had couldn't be built anymore without a steel frame, it would cost about $200,000, he said go ahead but don't hire the original architect, find the name of the architect who has the best track record with his city. After a couple of years of neighborhood meetings, design review meetings, etc, and the architect adding a lot of additional stuff that he was willing to pay for, the city informed me that I needed a landscape architect to design a couple of acre hillside on the back of his house, the city never would accept the submitted designs but suggested that I hire their recommended landscape architect, so I did. We had a final planning commission meeting, the architect and landscape architect again made their Power Point presentation with everything approved by staff and the Design Review Commission, one of the commissioners said she wanted a 50 year bond for $1 million to guarantee that the landscaping would be watered and maintained, or the city would take over and maintain it with their bond monies. He asked me how much now, I said we were probably at half a million for the remodeling, but I had no idea the cost of the landscaping and irrigation, but assume a few hundred thousand more, he said okay. He called the next morning and said to forget the whole thing, building a park for the ****ing city was bad enough, but spending a fortune maintaining a park for the city was too much.

A month ago he called back saying that he had hired another architect to remodel the existing bath, the plans called for no structural changes, can I do it without a permit? I pointed out disclosure requirements at sale and he intends to retire in a couple of years, he said no problem he would disclose when he sold, that the architect recommended that he not get a permit, she told him that if I got permit the Green Code would make him change plumbing fixtures all over the house to those that little water comes out of, that they will make him get a HERS Rater in and probably replace both furnaces and all ducting in the home.

As far as the public is concerned, lower and upper socioeconomic classes, our government has become totalitarian, time for the

. BTW, this guy was a Captain in the Marine Corps who served two tours of duty in Viet Nam leading his troops out of helicopters to preserve our freedoms.
 
mark handler said:
And your point would be?
If you can't figure it out, my point is that we are losing all of our freedoms, we are told who we have to do business with, what color we have to paint our houses, what landscaping we have to have, how much water and heat we can use, etc., etc., etc.

When the Nazis came for the communists,

I remained silent;

I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,

I remained silent;

I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,

I did not speak out;

I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,

I remained silent;

I wasn't a Jew.

When they came for me,

there was no one left to speak out.

Friedrich Gustav Emil Martin Niemöller
 
conarb said:
If you can't figure it out, my point is that we are losing all of our freedoms, we are told who we have to do business with, what color we have to paint our houses, what landscaping we have to have, how much water and heat we can use, etc., etc., etc.When the Nazis came for the communists,

I remained silent;

I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,

I remained silent;

I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,

I did not speak out;

I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,

I remained silent;

I wasn't a Jew.

When they came for me,

there was no one left to speak out.

Friedrich Gustav Emil Martin Niemöller
Boy what a scary mind you live in....You need to get out more

we are not all monsters.
 
mark handler said:
Boy what a scary mind you live in....You need to get out more we are not all monsters.
You don't have to be a monster to be part of the problem. (I'm not saying you are).

But the point is there never seems to be any pushback on regulation or restriction. It's just "more is better". Does it really seem right that when someone wants to remodel their home they have to landscape and bond for maintenance?

Does that really sound sensible to you?

It reminds me back in 2006 I wanted to buy a lot in Woodland. This is before everything went to total shlt.

The fees and permits alone on the lot would cost me a shade over $80,000. That's before you could scrape the dirt. So the lot and permits were going to cost over $200,000 and would accommodate no more that 2,100 sq, ft.

There were 2 fees stacked for local parks, upgraded lighting fees, on and on and on. So no house gets built. They were unwavering on costs.

Of course, 3 years later they would beg you to build a chicken coop on the mayors lawn for a 50 dollar permit. There was almost NO building dept in Yolo county for awhile.

Need some common sense.

I'm sure you understand Conarb's point.

Brent.
 
Brent said:
that when someone wants to remodel their home they have to landscape and bond for maintenance?Does that really sound sensible to you?
As things turned out with our new Green Code they wouldn't let you landscape that acreage if you wanted to, maybe some drought resistant landscaping. BTW, a friend took out a permit to do a million dollar remodel in this same town, the Affordable Housing fee was $68,000.
 
conarb said:
As things turned out with our new Green Code they wouldn't let you landscape that acreage if you wanted to, maybe some drought resistant landscaping. BTW, a friend took out a permit to do a million dollar remodel in this same town, the Affordable Housing fee was $68,000.
There ya go.

Dueling Bullsh1t.

That's the worst possible scenario.

I friend of mine is part of Atlas heating in San Mateo. They wanted to buy this lot that had an unfinished foundation on it that the bank turned over, and I was being allowed in to sort of get my feet wet and get into the spec market. This was a place in the hills overlooking Burlington.

What drove them away was the dueling bullsh1t between the planning dept, and the building dept. The previous owner literally went bankrupt because one entity wanted a retaining wall directly where the septic system was. they were moving things on an approved set of plans.

Ol' Boy eventually just went titsup and gave it back to the bank. Just an elaborate, multistory foundation. The bank damn near would give it to you just to get away from the eminent SWPPS fines and lawsuits.

I think the whole abortion is still there, nobody can touch it.

Brent.
 
I didn't know this guy because he was a freshman when I was a senior, but we both worked our way through college, he's a lot smarter than I and stayed and became a builder/developer in Palo Alto, he just gave the university $151 million after lots of other major gifts, at the same time Palo Alto is fighting him trying to develop land:

Contra Costa Times said:
PALO ALTO -- Stanford University has received a jaw-dropping $151 million donation, its largest gift ever from a single living person, the university announced Monday.

It is not the first philanthropic record made by the Silicon Valley real estate developer John Arrillaga Sr., who attended Stanford on a basketball scholarship and graduated in 1960. Arrillaga gave the university $100 million in 2006 -- then the largest donation of its kind -- and his family's name appears on buildings all over campus: Arrillaga Family Sports Center, the Arrillaga Center for Sports and Recreation, the Frances C. Arrillaga Alumni Center and the Arrillaga Family Dining Commons.

Arrillaga's daughter reflected on her father's humble beginnings and life as a Stanford student-athlete in a piece posted on the university's website. Her father washed dishes, delivered mail and did gardening to cover his living expenses while he was an undergraduate, wrote Laura Arrillaga-Andreessen, a public policy and philanthropy lecturer at Stanford. ¹
Mercury News said:
Council members cited several concerns about Arrillaga's plan, ranging from the seemingly secretive process that was used to develop it to the sheer size of the proposed buildings."This is an ambitious community but the current proposal is over-ambitious and the process has been somewhat upside down," Council Member Karen Holman said. "I am confident that Mr. Arrillaga, going forward, will want to stay attuned to what's going on and will want to build something complimentary to his legacy and complimentary to Palo Alto."

Arrillaga's plan has undergone revisions since its public introduction in September, but the four office towers and theater would still exceed the city's 50-foot height restriction on new development. Including mechanical equipment, two of the buildings would top 114 feet.

Located on 4.3 acres of mostly Stanford-owned land bounded by University Avenue, the downtown Caltrain station, El Camino Park and El Camino Real, the project also calls for a rebuild of the Intermodal Transit Center as well as improved bicycle and pedestrian connections. ²
Average permit time here is 7 years, during that time you have to fight a bunch of city employees who couldn't make a million dollars if their lives depended upon it, but they think they know better than we do. Palo Alto is terrible, they have even outlawed copper gutters and drain pipes because they can harm the ****ing fish.

I was fighting a County plan checker, an SE, as she challenged everything my SE did, at one point she as much as told me that she didn't have time for my few million dollar house as she was working on the Bing Concert Hall. I told her that Peter Bing was a classmate of mine, she asked how he made all of his money? I told her he didn't make the money, he was only a public health doctor, his father and uncle came over from Hungary penniless Jews after the First World War, they built all kinds of large Cooperative Apartments in New York City, and in those days there were no building permits and very little in the way of structural engineering, and those buildings are still standing. Her comment: "Well they don't have earthquakes in New York city so building permits aren't necessary."

¹ http://www.contracostatimes.com/ci_23578960/stanfords-record-gift-151-million?IADID=Search-www.contracostatimes.com-www.contracostatimes.com

² http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_22125839/palo-alto-council-seeks-alternate-plans-arrillaga-project
 
I think the trick is to build a stadium or arena.

I'll bet there's a pemit waiting for you right now on the counter. We can work out the details later. Just look at Sacramento.

Brent.
 
How did this turn into a California fee issue when I started a thread about a plumbing code violation? I just love how people make mountains out of mole-hills and detract from the simplistic issues with over-the-top extremist examples that have nothing to do with the actual issue at hand.

The words “extreme” and “extremism” are often used to convey two very different meanings. Unfortunately many people do not seem to be aware of this and therefore confuse the meanings themselves. These are:Being on one side of an issue and refusing to consider reasonable counterarguments to that position.

Deviating too much from society’s norms.

It is important to note that while 1 is irrational behavior, there is no inherent problem with 2.

What is our most reasonable remedy for upholding the pluralistic values of constitutional democracy? The most enduring remedy is closely related to the fact that a majority of democratic citizens are not themselves extremists. The most reliable surveys and scholarly studies consistently find a far more pluralistic and open-minded electorate than the public catered to by extremist rhetoric on cable TV and talk radio and among many political elites.
 
How did it turn from a California fee issue into a quoted tirade on extremism?

Because it's a thread. A string of thoughts woven together.

Usually during conversation the subject wanders as the participants either find common ground or argue a dispute.

The OP is a horse that can be beaten to death only so much, so thoughts move around.

Besides, I gave you guys the correct answer way back. No need to discuss it further, really. :)

Brent.
 
"A diversion tactic!"

Jar, "Are there any posting rules you can't drink a bottle of scotch before you post?

Post #94, avatar picture of what a real electrician looks like? ;)

pc1
 
jar546 said:
Unlike the other I-Codes, the IPC has a little known sentence at the end of 102.3 that says:

[A] 102.3 Maintenance.

All plumbing systems, materials and appurtenances, both existing and new, and all parts thereof, shall be maintained in proper operating condition in accordance with the original design in a safe and sanitary condition. All devices or safeguards required by this code shall be maintained in compliance with the code edition under which they were installed.

The owner or the owner’s designated agent shall be responsible for maintenance of plumbing systems. To determine compliance with this provision, the code official shall have the authority to require any plumbing system to be reinspected.

PLUMBING SYSTEM. Includes the water supply and distribution pipes; plumbing fixtures and traps; water-treating or water-using equipment; soil, waste and vent pipes; and sanitary and storm sewers and building drains; in addition to their respective connections, devices and appurtenances within a structure or premises.

The definition of a "plumbing system" is very specific and I do not see where it includes unrestricted access by the public to a toilet room
 
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