Would you require safety glazing?

[ewenme]

We have a sorority doing a remodel. During the process they've changed the configuration of the bunk beds on the sleeping porch to be parallel to and right next to the windows. We've already had one college student fall out of bed and out a window with disastrous effects. I can find nothing in IBC 2406 that would require safety glazing in the windows, even though they are sleeping above the level of the window. What would you do?

 

[fatboy]

Furniture configuration......not a code issue. Similar to chairs/furniture next to guards.

 

[Gene Boecker]

Agree with fatboy.

There's nothing in the code to fix stupid.

 

[globe trekker]

Carol,

Have you looked at Section 3410.3.1 ( in the `06 IBC ): Hazards. "Where the building

official determines that an unsafe condition exists, as provided for in Section 115,

such unsafe condition shall be abated in accordance with Section 115."

Section 115: UNSAFE STRUCTURES AND EQUIPMENT.

115.1 Conditions.

Structures or existing equipment that are or hereafter become unsafe, insanitary

or deficient because of inadequate means of egress facilities, inadequate light and

ventilation, or which constitute a fire hazard, or are otherwise dangerous to

human life or the public welfare, or that involve illegal or improper occupancy or

inadequate maintenance, shall be deemed an unsafe condition. Unsafe

structures shall be taken down and removed or made safe, as the

building official deems necessary and as provided for in this section.

A vacant structure that is not secured against entry shall be deemed unsafe."

Will this apply in your case?

.

 

[mtlogcabin]

Agree with the others.

I don't think a bunk bed constitutes a "structure"

 

[Bootleg]

One low cost fix would be window film.

 

[ewenme]

Thank you all for the replies. At least I'm not overlooking the obvious. Section 115 of the IBC does have 'other unsafe conditions' but I think it applies to the structure as mtlogcabin suggests. I guess I can make a recommendation that Bootleg refers to: one way to ameliorate the hazard would be window film. See why I love this BB. We get common sense and code knowledge all in one! Thank you again.

 

[globe trekker]

If the sleeping porch area is part of the structure, wouldn't said glass also be part of

the ' unsafe ' structure, ...RE: " ...or [ structures ] that are otherwise dangerous to

human life". There has already been a precedent set with one mishap.

If you are asking what to do, IMO, I would garner the Fire Chief / Marshall assistance

and address this issue together, to see if some type of safety device / material / system

could be installed. Besides, with that one precendent, that's a lot of evidence that

it could easily happen again, especially since the beds are now moved closer to the

source.

In my observations of applying the codes, if just the BO requires it, then the

"parties-of-interest" will fight tooth and nail against it, however, if the

Fire Chief / Marshall is onboard with it, the issue seems to get resolved a lot

easier. I've seen & heard that some Fire officials will play the " Well what if it

was your child that fell out of that window" card. That seems to work too!

Just my 1.5 cents worth Carol!

.

 

[Mac]

If the beds obstruct the emergency egress & rescue window(s) you could ask them to relocate the beds. If you are unsure, ask the Fire Chief to visit the room and advise.

 

[vegas paul]

Solution: Structural Strap Netting...

 

[Yankee]

Not your issue, they need to figure it out. Don't go there.

 

[globe trekker]

Yankee,

I will have to respectfully disagree with you here. IMO, this issue IS part of the BO's

responsibility. It is a documented safety hazard, only now; with the beds being

moved closer, the potential [ or as it is known in Statistics, ... the probability ] has

increased. I do not believe that Carol can knowingly "turn a blind eye" to this.

I'll ask the question in another way. There are a few of the forum members

on here with kids in school / college. What would you parents of the kids want

done? Would you [ parents ] knowingly allow your child to bunk next to this

type of hazard?

vegas paul,

That darned "strap netting" is a fix-all for everything isn't it...

Aaaaaaahhhh yes, ...the good `ol BB days!

.

 

[88twin]

speaking for fraternity across the street, please don't put film on the windows

How big are these windows?

What the %$#$ are you doing on your bunk that you "fall" out?

"Sleeping Porch" not bedroom, if windows are not required for egress and double hung, suggest

a guard across the upper.

agree with gene & fatboy ya can't fix stupid

 

[FM William Burns]

Little late in the game but here is my 25 cents worth:

There are a few of the forum members on here with kids in school / college. What would you parents of the kids want done? Would you [ parents ] knowingly allow your child to bunk next to this type of hazard?

If this occupancy is on the campus and is under the purview of the campus, the responsibility lies with their department of safety (or whatever they call it) unless some other jurisdictional arrangement is in effect. Is it a hazard? Yes! This situation creates a life safety hazard and therefore should be addressed through proper channels. It appears that it is not a renovation that requires a building permit or remotely pertains to a structural renovation or occupancy change.



If I were a parent of a student and actually had knowledge of this proposed or actual accommodation alteration; I would report it to the proper authority with documentation of the previous incident. If my complaint to the authority did not produce fruit, I would conduct a rudiment test with media using a similar scale environment with weighted mannequin and demonstrate the potential hazard. If that did not produce fruit, I would move my student into a dorm or off campus apartment only after I inspected it and was comfortable with the safety features in existence.



BTW…my new college student will be living in a newer fully sprinkled, CCTV monitored, security staffed, mass notification 3 story apartment/dorm fully inspected by FMWB and one of the reasons we felt comfortable with our student’s choice in higher education. Sometimes, parents need to be involved in assuring their fledglings are adequately/reasonably safe after they leave the nest. Unfortunately, the majority of parents who think about this kind of stuff are those of us in the business.

 

[globe trekker]

FMWB,

You are never too late to enter the discussion! Your input, as well as everyone else,

is always appreciated. That is one of the reasons that I enjoy this forum so much,

...I get different perspectives that I would never think of.

Because Carol initially said that it is a remodel [ for a sorority ], I think that she

does have primary jurisdiction. Also, because "they changed the configuration during

the process", ...wouldn't this ' change ' to the original plans require another review /

approval by the BO? I'm having a hard time getting past Section 115. What can

I say, ...I'm kinda slow.

88twin,

You already know what they do on bunk beds that [ may ] cause them to

fall out of a window. The fraternity boys come a calling...

.

 

[ewenme]

The previous incident of the student falling out of the window, resulting in great bodily harm, happened when a heterosexual couple were occupying the top bunk together in a fraternity/sorority. It was against house rules, but that didn't stop it from happening. The sorority is under my jurisdiction because it is privately owned real property, even though it is on the campus. The U has no jurisdiction over the construction. And, yes, the remodel required a permit, since it was the sleeping porch and the rooms adjoining that were remodeled, along with other areas of the house.

The Fire Mashall and I are on the same page in this situation, however, he is on vacation. The Fire Chief is also on the same page. [globe trekker: it always works best when Fire and Building work together on touchy situations. That's one of the high points of my job; I work in a very cooperative inter-departmental City.]

Rush week is next week, so we need to move quickly on this one. I will recommend the film on the windows as a minimum requirement; however, I will also suggest guards on the windows, as they are not strictly escape and rescue windows: there are two exits from the sleeping porch via doors.

Thank you to the vocal supporters. I really appreciate hearing that I'm not being Draconian in asking for something to prevent re-occurrence of avoidable accidents.

 

[Yikes]

ewenme, I think my neice lives in this sorority house, so I appreciate your concern. Here's my take on it:

- I think "furniture" issues are just that... not the normal jurisdiction of the building official. In one sense, you are opening a real "can of worms" if you start enforcing this from the standpoint of building code official. Usually the building + furniture interface is the jurisdiction of the fire official (for example, table+ seating layouts in assembly rooms, to preserve exit aisles). I would not normally want a building official to have jurisdiction over furniture. Fire official? Maybe.

- However, if you see something that represents an "imminent danger" in your opinion, you have a responsibility to report it and enforce safety, even if it is not normally your jurisdiction. As an architect I have done this when I 've seen a contractor do something unsafe (example, trenches deeper than 5' without proper OSHA safety measures),even when it was clearly beyond my responsibility. My professional insurance company allows this intervention.

- I suggest you bring this to the attention of the sorority at the national level, so that their insurance company is aware of the issues, perhaps contacting the insurance company if as a follow-up to their inquiries in the previous incident(?) The insurance company involvement will ultimately get better response than a mere code enforcement.

 

[peach]

safety glass is only going to make the sister's injuries a little less (nice little pieces not shards of glass).. not going to protect her from falling out of the window.

 

[ewenme]

In the incident where the student fell out through the window, the person was cut horribly, and also had broken bones. This is one reason why I think some sort of guard would be the best solution. Several years ago a young fraternity brother was mooning onlookers through an open window and he fell out. At least he wasn't cut badly, but he was very seriously injured. That incident prompted may stickers to pop up in windows, with varying degrees of humor and seriousness. I've heard that the human brain is not completely formed until about 22-25 years. Sometimes I can believe it.

 

[peach]

bolt the furniture down so it can't be moved? Install burglar bars? (which still have to be openable from inside).

What would be next.. fall proof stairs?

If we are going to protect against every POSSIBLE hazard, stairways will be padded.

 

[FM William Burns]

GT,

Thanks for the clairifications and kindness, I didn't go back through and read it further. Personally, I don't think this particular situation meets the intent of the conditions of S-115 and only loosly applies to the "otherwise dangerous to human life" since I believe this would refer to collapse potentials associated to the structure itself but I could be wrong .

Ewenme,

Yikes also offers some exceptional advice regarding the insurance angle and notification to the owner(s). You do have a valid concern and the Fire Chief can make report to the effect of a life safety concern and means to abate in the absence of the FM. Serving notice to all stakeholders and documentations have always worked for me even where gray areas exist. Best wishes and I ditto the concerns you have. We all enforce guards in Hotels for upper level stories don't we?

 

[JBI]

I think Mac nailed it... what's the effect on 'emergency escape and rescue'? Has it been impeded by the relocated furnishings? If so, it is most certainly a 'code issue'.

My daughter and her roommates were rearranging their dorm room last year. Only one part of the window was 'operable', and despite their elevation above exterior grade, would have been the only way for a ladder truck to get them out. I talked them into modifying their plan accordingly. Not my 'jurisdiction' as a Code Official; DEFINITELY my 'jurisdiction' as Dad...

 

[peach]

Unless you require the furniture to be bolted to the floor, it's always going to be rearranged.

Does it make a lot of sense to put a bed right under a window? Certainly not if you have toddlers... (who can bounce on the bed, etc)... grown ups ought to know better.

 

[Uncle Bob]

Picture the following news reports:

"Student falls to death, attemting to remove window treatment required by Building Official. Investigation pending."

"Students die in fire in dorm. Fire prevented students from escaping through doors; and window bars that were required by Building Official prevented window rescue. Investigation pending."

Please be sure you are on a solid foundation.

Uncle Bob