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You Call It

Discussion in 'Contractor Talk' started by ICE, Jun 5, 2013.

  1. Ronald Bets

    Ronald Bets Sawhorse

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    "He was unlicensed" I know that in California that means the home owner owes nothing- illegal is illegal- no sympathy from the Judge!
     
  2. ICE

    ICE Sawhorse

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    It was to be a simple water heater inspection. I was looking to get done early and screw the pooch. As simple as a water heater inspection is, I am left to wonder if they find the installers at Home Depot, put them in a uniform and tell them that they are aqua caliente boiler plomeros.

    Well wouldn't you know it, it's a Sears sale. The lady in her mid-eighties paid Sears $1300....$594 for the heater and $706 to install it.

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    I didn't want to do it, but I had to tell her that she did a lousy job with the vent. When I showed her what a vent cap is, she said that they left a big mess in her yard that she had to pick up so it's possible that she tossed it.

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    The T&P drain pipe is a couple inches off the concrete and it can't terminate within the enclosure. But they did strap the heater in.
     
    #22 ICE, Aug 9, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2019
  3. ICE

    ICE Sawhorse

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    That's right. The water heater is strapped to a shim that is attached to the doghouse.

    She asked me what would happen next. I told her that they would be coming back to fix a few things. Right away she worried about the ineptitude of the workers, and Shirley paying them more money.

    I told her to call Sears and voice your concerns. She asked me to write down what she should say when she calls Sears. I told her that I did, it's right here....my corrections. She said she wants the stuff about getting a new crew and not sticking it to her. Well I told her that I am not supposed to get involved to that level. I explained that everybody freaks out if I mention dollars. The contractors, the contractors family and friends, my supervisors, they all lose it if I point out the obvious. So no ma'am, I will not write it down and leave evidence of my imprudence.

    She started to tear up. A little old lady was asking for my help and I am supposed to excuse myself and be on my way to the next one. My escape from this dilemma was a jump back in time. I went back to the moment when she told me that they left a pile of garbage for her to pick up. I thought,"What ungrateful pigs they are".

    While reliving the past I heard her say, "Please Sir, please call Sears for me" "I'll never be able to do it"

    I asked her if she had children. She said yes, a boy and girl. I asked her what the boy's name is and she told me Robert. I said, well give me the phone and call me Bobby.

    I then spent the next hour being shuffled, on hold and hung up on. I called the store in Brea, where she bought the thing and talked with people in Toledo, Chicago and somewhere in the south but got no closer to the store manager than a thousand miles. At every stop they had to type in the inspector's list. It got to the point that the little old lady knew the corrections by heart. I'm thinking, What the Hell, she could've done this herself.

    I could hear the keystrokes on their end and it sounded just like me....two fingers. I had to talk slow and not give them more than three words at a time. This could be the training ground for installers.

    In the end, a guy named Joe assured me that the work will get done "Up to Code" and Robert's mom won't pay any more money. We will see.
     
    #23 ICE, Aug 9, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2019
  4. e hilton

    e hilton Bronze Member

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    Why is the col;d water line insulated? And should the insulation cover the nipple that comes out of the top of the tank?
     
  5. ICE

    ICE Sawhorse

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    It gets really hot here....two or three days a year.

    The pipes perform as radiators because they are connected to the warm tank. That is true for both hot and cold pipes.

    I can't think of a reason not to.
     
    #25 ICE, Aug 10, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 10, 2014
  6. pwood

    pwood Platinum Member

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    Our energy codes require the first 5' of water line (hot and cold) from the water heater be insulated. You can put your hand on the piping and feel the heat from the tank. The insulation supposedly prevents this heat dissipation and thus saves you money.

    The insulation is combustible and should have an 18" clearance to the vent pipe though. Oh what to do? Retire? Oh yeah i just did! :mrgreen:
     
  7. ICE

    ICE Sawhorse

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    Outdoors, the clearance to combustibles from a single wall vent connector is 6". It is 18" indoors. I have seen melted foam from being against the vent but I haven't seen burnt foam. Not that it couldn't happen, I just haven't seen it.
     
  8. e hilton

    e hilton Bronze Member

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    I thought there were one-way valves in both hot & cold connections to prevent hot water from backflowing up the cold pipe.
     
  9. Wayne

    Wayne Sawhorse

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    H20 traffic rating is what you're shooting for on this one. A garbage truck could park on it.
     
  10. ICE

    ICE Sawhorse

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    I got into trouble for asking to see the paperwork. I have caught them doing more work than what the permit states so often that I felt that there was no foul in asking the owner to see the contract. Of course the price is always on the contract. Now I have endeavored to not react to the price.

    Today the plumber and the owner were in the front yard when I arrived. I got to talking with them and the plumber asked a few questions about sewer liners. I looked at the owner and asked him if he was thinking about having a liner installed. He said oh goodness no, it will take some time to pay off the bill for the cleanouts. Well I saw that as an opening to inquire....after all I didn't bring up the cost.....the owner did. So I asked him how much he paid for the cleanouts. $8000.00 was his answer. I asked him if he got anything other than the cleanouts...like maybe a big screen and a Moped. Nope, just cleaned out he was...just cleaned out.

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    I bet that this one company does 30 of these every week. Understand that they aren't all bell ringers like this $8k gift, but most are over $3k and I've seen them take folks for over $20k.
     
    #30 ICE, Dec 17, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2019
  11. ICE

    ICE Sawhorse

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    I'm sorry that I missed this e hilton.

    I have heard such a thing mentioned before but haven't a clue. Perhaps some of the members that are sharp with plumbing can tell us.
     
  12. ICE

    ICE Sawhorse

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    They're going to howl about this one.

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    I told them to install a pair of driveway rated yard boxes. I made up the "driveway rated" verbiage. I couldn't think of a better description of a yard box that can support a garbage truck.

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    No matter what they do, I'll say sorry but that's not it.
     
    #32 ICE, Dec 17, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2019
  13. steveray

    steveray Sawhorse

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    I believe they make some of them with integral heat traps.....the heat is lost through conduction through the pipes connected to the WH....Not the movement of the water...We do 5' of cold and 10' of hot with insul here...
     
  14. ICE

    ICE Sawhorse

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    Something is screwy with the website. Wayne posted a reply to my post (#29)prior to my post(#31). My post says that it it 2 hours old but it is actually 12 hours old. I looked at several other threads that I replied to and they are all off by 12 hours.
     
  15. ICE

    ICE Sawhorse

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    About 30 feet of trenchless sewer pipe has been installed. I suppose they went that route instead of digging a trench and replacing the clay pipe with ABS because they didn't want to tear up the yard. So they tore up the yard. The pipe is two feet deep to six feet deep. The cost was $6887.00

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    The method of installation is to pull the liner through the clay pipe and burst the clay pipe as the
    breaker head passes through. The ring is a ridge where two sections of the pastic pipe have been fused together. That ridge must be removed. It takes a special tool. I don't think that the special tool will make the turn through a clean-out fitting.

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    I find it hard to believe that people fall for this bullsh_t scam.
     
    #35 ICE, Oct 22, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2019
  16. JPohling

    JPohling Sawhorse

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    I am pretty sure that once completed you cannot run a root cutter down it ever again either......................
     
  17. Msradell

    Msradell Sawhorse

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    Hopefully you won't need to.
     
  18. ICE

    ICE Sawhorse

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    They didn't include a cleanout. The paperwork stated "Spot repair...3' of ABS....$3,800.00."

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    #38 ICE, Jan 9, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2019
    Msradell likes this.
  19. ICE

    ICE Sawhorse

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    3.5" of pipe, 3" deep cost $1128.57 per foot.

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    #39 ICE, Jul 2, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2019
  20. JPohling

    JPohling Sawhorse

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    What is wrong with these people to charge this amount for this work, and what is wrong with these people that are accepting the proposals?
     

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