Is a permit required for a HABITABLE accessory structure

[Robert]

I may have misled someone recently. Thay said they were going to build a glamping cottage less than 120 sq. ft. to avoid a building permit. I said that would be habitable space since people would be sleeping in it so they would need a permit. Was I wrong? Does habitable vs. non-habitable kick the permit in? I'm in CA and our permit exemption Section R105 states "one story detached accessory structures less than 120 sq. ft." do not require permits. I can't find definition for accessory structure.

 

[Glenn]

I may have misled someone recently. Thay said they were going to build a glamping cottage less than 120 sq. ft. to avoid a building permit. I said that would be habitable space since people would be sleeping in it so they would need a permit. Was I wrong? Does habitable vs. non-habitable kick the permit in? I'm in CA and our permit exemption Section R105 states "one story detached accessory structures less than 120 sq. ft." do not require permits. I can't find definition for accessory structure.

Run.

 

[ICE]

There’s no such thing as a glamping cottage……. it’s a shed….with cots. That’s not a habitable space. Less than 120 sg.ft. is exempt from a building permit.

 

[Mr. Inspector]

Here in PA you can go up to 1,000 sq ft accessory without a permit for carports, detached private garages, greenhouses and sheds with no height or story limit. But nothing about habitable accessory buildings in our state code, so I guess that would be more then 200 sq ft would need a permit.

 

[steveray]

Does it qualify as a dwelling unit?

 

[mtlogcabin]

Think of it as a KOA campground cabin, What is the intended use? VRBO maybe, will it have electric? You should have asked more questions and not let the size dictate your answer. Just because it is located on a residential property and next to a house does not limit you to having to use the IRC.

Under the IBC it would be a sleeping unit

R201.3 Terms defined in other codes.
Where terms are not defined in this code such terms shall have the meanings ascribed in other code publications of the International Code Council.

[A] SLEEPING UNIT. A single unit that provides rooms or spaces for one or more persons, includes permanent provisions for sleeping and can include provisions for living, eating and either sanitation or kitchen facilities but not both. Such rooms and spaces that are also part of a dwelling unit are not sleeping units.

 

[bill1952]

This seems simple, so what am I missing?

"R105.2 Work exempt from permit.
Exemption from permit requirements of this code shall not be deemed to grant authorization for any work to be done in any manner in violation of the provisions of this code or any other laws or ordinances of this jurisdiction. Permits shall not be required for the following:

Building:
1.One-story detached accessory structures, provided that the floor area does not exceed 200 square feet (18.58 m2).
......"

(I assume the 120 is a local amendment or another edition - this from 2018)

AND

Chapter 2: "ACCESSORY STRUCTURE. A structure that is accessory to and incidental to that of the dwelling(s) and that is located on the same lot."

Assuming its "on same lot" a fact not stated, no building permit required. Still has to meet code.

 

[redeyedfly]

Think of it as a KOA campground cabin, What is the intended use? VRBO maybe, will it have electric? You should have asked more questions and not let the size dictate your answer. Just because it is located on a residential property and next to a house does not limit you to having to use the IRC.

Under the IBC it would be a sleeping unit

R201.3 Terms defined in other codes.
Where terms are not defined in this code such terms shall have the meanings ascribed in other code publications of the International Code Council.

[A] SLEEPING UNIT. A single unit that provides rooms or spaces for one or more persons, includes permanent provisions for sleeping and can include provisions for living, eating and either sanitation or kitchen facilities but not both. Such rooms and spaces that are also part of a dwelling unit are not sleeping units.

Definitely not a sleeping unit. Sleeping units are defined for accessibility requirements and show up nowhere else in the code. And electricity does not make it a habitable space, lots of sheds have electricity.

It's exempt from a building permit.

 

[BN4537]

What are your local requirements for tiny homes?

IRC 2018, Appendix Q. Definitions - Tiny House. A dwelling that is 400 square feet or less in floor area, excluding lofts.

Dwelling - any building that contains a dwelling unit occupied for living purposes.

Dwelling Unit - includes provisions for living, sleeping, eating, cooking, and sanitation.

Locally, if you run electricity out to the place, you need to get an electrical permit and inspection.

Also, don't forget zoning issues.

 

[Joe.B]

Are they running any power or other utilities? That would trigger permits also. In my opinion "accessory" would exclude "habitable."

 

[Mr209Smith]

Definitely not a sleeping unit. Sleeping units are defined for accessibility requirements and show up nowhere else in the code. And electricity does not make it a habitable space, lots of sheds have electricity.

It's exempt from a building permit.

Once you add electrical to a detached structure, no matter the size, we require it to be permitted.

If the intent is for it to be slept in, it would need a permit no matter the size. At least, that is how we would treat it.

 

[redeyedfly]

Once you add electrical to a detached structure, no matter the size, we require it to be permitted.

If the intent is for it to be slept in, it would need a permit no matter the size. At least, that is how we would treat it.

You would need an electrical permit. I wrote "building permit". Building permits do not depend on whether there is electric service, they depend on sanitation facilities and area.

 

[bill1952]

Are they running any power or other utilities? That would trigger permits also. In my opinion "accessory" would exclude "habitable."

I appreciate and respect you stating as your opinion but is there any basis for that in the IRC? I just don't find anything in any definitions that exclude "living, sleeping, eating or cooking" in accessory structures.

 

[Robert]

All good replies and still unsure of permit. To simplify, let's say there was no power to the cotttage/shed, whatever you want to call it. Shower/cooking etc is provided somewhere else on site. But they will be sleeping and staying there on a temporary basis. So I feel that makes it habitable. And does it even mater if its habitable as long as they are under 120 sq. ft? I don't think it is a dwelling unit since there is no bathing/kitchen etc? Definition of dwelling unit states eating cooking and sanitation....this has none of those. So it's a habitable shed (accessory structure) under 120 sq. ft. with no power.....permit?

 

[Mr209Smith]

You would need an electrical permit. I wrote "building permit". Building permits do not depend on whether there is electric service, they depend on sanitation facilities and area.

Well that's fine and dandy for you, but that isn't how it works here. We do not have trade permits, we have building permits. Once electrical is being installed in the detached structure, the structure itself must be permitted, not just the electrical to it.

 

[Joe.B]

HABITABLE SPACE. A space in a building for living, sleeping, eating or cooking. Bathrooms, toilet rooms, closets, halls, storage or utility spaces and similar areas are not considered habitable spaces.

 

[ICE]

Well that's fine and dandy for you, but that isn't how it works here. We do not have trade permits, we have building permits. Once electrical is being installed in the detached structure, the structure itself must be permitted, not just the electrical to it.

That is sooo California....I have advocated for that for years.....with one price no matter what it is for.....$1000.00 ......think of it....only one permit to lose....and damned few at that.

Now back to the dinky bunkhouse. I always have to have two ways out of a sleeping room....and I know that it's just me and not code.....so add a window or another door. I prefer the window for the ambiance. But code requires a few smoke alarms and a CO alarm which will need to be interconnected. One smoke and CO alarm will need to be listed for a wet location. And now that the dinky bunkhouse is habitable, heat is required.

There ain't gonna be just plopping on the Earth either. I guess you need an engineered plan to keep this postage stamp of a habitable shed from mailing itself to Nevada.

 

[redeyedfly]

Well that's fine and dandy for you, but that isn't how it works here. We do not have trade permits, we have building permits. Once electrical is being installed in the detached structure, the structure itself must be permitted, not just the electrical to it.

I will concede that I am not an expert in CA requirements for building permits, especially in the area of very small structures.

 

[bill1952]

That is sooo California....I have advocated for that for years.....with one price no matter what it is for.....$1000.00 ......think of it....only one permit to lose....and damned few at that.

Now back to the dinky bunkhouse. I always have to have two ways out of a sleeping room....and I know that it's just me and not code.....so add a window or another door. I prefer the window for the ambiance. But code requires a few smoke alarms and a CO alarm which will need to be interconnected. One smoke and CO alarm will need to be listed for a wet location. And now that the dinky bunkhouse is habitable, heat is required.

Why wet? OP said there is no plumbing.

 

[ICE]

Why wet? OP said there is no plumbing.

R314.3 Location. Smoke alarms shall be installed in the following locations:

In each sleeping room.
Outside each separate sleeping area in the immediate vicinity.

I forgot to mention the CO inside the dinky bunkhouse if there is a gas fired appliance for heat such as a dinky wall furnace. Then there is the possibility of electric heat which would require the alarms to be hardwired.

That one permit will need multiple pages....you know....for stuff.

 

[Joe.B]

I think an overlooked part of this question is the intended use of said "glamping cottage." Is this someone's private ranch and they want a nice cabin up by the lake so when their family comes in they can hike up to the lake and have a nice room to "camp" in, or is this someone who intends to rent these out to make money? If it's the latter I would recommend getting permits even if there are loopholes one could use to say a permit is not needed. Could you imagine how that would look in court if something bad happened? "Family dies in unpermitted structure..." That's not going to go well for somebody.

 

[mtlogcabin]

Definitely not a sleeping unit. Sleeping units are defined for accessibility requirements and show up nowhere else in the code.

No a sleeping unit comes up 158 times in the IBC code and is referenced in all R occupancies and some I occupancies

[BE] INTENDED TO BE OCCUPIED AS A RESIDENCE. This refers to a dwelling unit or sleeping unit that can or will be used all or part of the time as the occupant’s place of abode.

[BG] TRANSIENT. Occupancy of a dwelling unit or sleeping unit for not more than 30 days. (Glamping Cabin perhaps)

310.1 Residential Group R.
Residential Group R includes, among others, the use of a building or structure, or a portion thereof, for sleeping purposes when not classified as an Institutional Group I or when not regulated by the International Residential Code.

 

[Robert]

Good stuff. Yes these would be rented out like campsites, but with a little more comfort. I Agree permits would be good, but I like understanding what triggers things. So far I'm thinking still no permit req'd. No electricity?....smoke detector...good point...battery operated. Heat?....good point...woodstove. Wind/seismic....good point and would be engineered to meet code, but still not requiring a permit since everything needs to meet code regardless if a pemit is required. Lighting?....little solar lanterns hanging around for ambiance or something similar. Also many of these I'm seeing are on wheels or skids so that could negate some of these items. I don't even think insulation is required (or energy compliance) since they aren't using fossil fuels....wood only. And of course local ahj may think differently.

 

[ICE]

Good stuff. Yes these would be rented out like campsites, but with a little more comfort. I Agree permits would be good, but I like understanding what triggers things. So far I'm thinking still no permit req'd. No electricity?....smoke detector...good point...battery operated. Heat?....good point...woodstove. Wind/seismic....good point and would be engineered to meet code, but still not requiring a permit since everything needs to meet code regardless if a pemit is required. Lighting?....little solar lanterns hanging around for ambiance or something similar. Also many of these I'm seeing are on wheels or skids so that could negate some of these items. I don't even think insulation is required (or energy compliance) since they aren't using fossil fuels....wood only. And of course local ahj may think differently.

Along with all of the permits....Planning Dept. approval.....Health Dept. for a septic tank or Sanitation Dept. for a sewer connection......don't forget a business license.

I should rearrange the order....Planning will most likely kill it.