• Welcome to the new and improved Building Code Forum. We appreciate you being here and hope that you are getting the information that you need concerning all codes of the building trades. This is a free forum to the public due to the generosity of the Sawhorses, Corporate Supporters and Supporters who have upgraded their accounts. If you would like to have improved access to the forum please upgrade to Sawhorse by first logging in then clicking here: Upgrades

Building Collapse in Surfside, Miami-Dade County

From experience I can tell you that the NE corners of the buildings on the ocean are always in worse shape when it comes to concrete restoration projects as part of maintenance and upkeep of these buildings, many post-tension.
 
“””The town of Surfside requires commercial and multi-family buildings to be recertified every 40 years. The process involves electrical and structural inspections for a report to be filed with the town. It was underway for the building but had not yet been completed, town officials said Thursday.”””

I wonder who keeps track when a building is due??? Seems like people would come and go/ retire a few times!!
 
chris kennedy said:
That building doesn't appear to be post tension.
Click to expand...
I did not see that it was. Most post-tension buildings need more concrete restoration work than your average concrete building and we are finding deteriorated tendons. Regardless of post-tension or not, the NE corners always have the most structural damage when a building is located on the ocean.
 
2 mm a year since 1990 is 2.35 inches. I am not an engineer but that does not seem to be a lot if it was I would think who ever did the report would recommended the building is unsafe and be evacuated.
 
mtlogcabin said:
2 mm a year since 1990 is 2.35 inches. I am not an engineer but that does not seem to be a lot if it was I would think who ever did the report would recommended the building is unsafe and be evacuated.
Click to expand...
The report I read said that the 2mm was documented from 1990-1999 but nothing had been documented since then. It didn't state however if it had quit sinking or if they had just stopped documenting it.
 
Some continued settlement early in the life of the building is not necessarily uncommon or disturbing from a safety perspective. How much settlement did the geotechnical report predict?

If the settlement was uniform across the building it may cause problems with the entry and the plumbing but not likely the cause of the disaster. We have a building in SF with much more settlement that is being retrofitted to reduce the rate of settlement but the building is understood to be safe.

I suspect that the problem will be found to be related to the choice of the structural system and some deterioration of key elements of the building. But this is speculation until the engineers look into the cause.

Is the recertification with respect to the code upon which the building was permitted or the current code. If the latter maybe they should just say tear the building down after 40 years.

In California we do not require buildings to be recertified and we do not have this problem. The recertification is also likely incompatible with the owners vested property rights. The solution is not to reduce the recertification period.

We should not jump to conclusions. Let us give the engineers and the city a chance to identify the likely cause of the failure.
 
Renzo Piano just completed a building next to the site, wonder what his geo recommended and what structural system he used. Also I have yet to see mention of the A & E who designed this building.
Also wonder the columns were supported on piles or a mat?
 
Tragic and now it seems the CBO of surfside gave a good report after the engineers report of structural damage in 2018. Not going to end well for this guy.
 
Surfside official was sent disturbing report. He told board condo was ‘in good shape’

A month after an engineer’s report flagged “major structural damage” at Champlain Towers South, the chief building official for the town of Surfside told residents the condominium was “in very good shape,” according to minutes from a November 2018 board meeting obtained by the Miami Herald.

Ross Prieto, who left the post last year, had reviewed the engineer’s report, the minutes say. Records show condo board member Mara Chouela forwarded a copy to him two days earlier.

An email posted on the town’s website shows that Chouela sent Prieto two reports: the “structural field survey report” by engineer Frank Morabito of Morabito Consultants detailing the building’s structural deficiencies, and a mechanical and electrical engineering report by Thomas E. Henz. P.E. And it was Chouela who introduced Prieto at the meeting with five of the seven board members, along with property manager Alexandria Santamaria, condo board lawyer Marilyn Perez and interested residents who had gathered in the building’s recreation room.

But this past Saturday, Prieto told the Herald he didn’t remember getting the report.

He said he didn’t recall the email from Chouela, who had also shared cost estimates for the repair work. Prieto said he wasn’t aware that the town had received the report, which detailed “abundant cracking” in concrete columns, beams and walls.

“I don’t know anything about it,” he said. “That’s 2018.”

Asked Sunday about the November 2018 board meeting, Prieto declined to comment, citing the advice of an attorney.
 
As a Building Official, I don't like the way this is worded.

40-Year Recertification Program

The Town of Surfside is a beautiful pedestrian-friendly oceanfront community located in South Florida's subtropical paradise. Surfside is home to nearly 6,000 residents and has an attractive residential neighborhood featuring multi-family condominium and apartment buildings, and a charming...
www.townofsurfsidefl.gov
 
jar546 said:
As a Building Official, I don't like the way this is worded.

40-Year Recertification Program

The Town of Surfside is a beautiful pedestrian-friendly oceanfront community located in South Florida's subtropical paradise. Surfside is home to nearly 6,000 residents and has an attractive residential neighborhood featuring multi-family condominium and apartment buildings, and a charming...
www.townofsurfsidefl.gov
Click to expand...
I agree Jar. Puts the onus on the BO, and not the property owner.

"...must be recertified by the Building Official..."
"...the Building Department will send a notice..."
 
The recertification form/program has multiple problems from the perspective of the engineer performing the inspections.

Engineers do not certify buildings, rather they express professional opinions. Certifications have great impact on professional liability insurance premiums. and increase liability exposure. This does not prevent the engineer from identifying likely problem areas and making recommendations.

The document does not include any objective criteria as to what is structurally safe thus making it difficult for the engineer to make a statement regarding structural safety. Structural safety is often times very subjective. Note that the building code does not require a statement that the building is structurally safe.

The discussion following the form can more appropriately be characterized a a rambling collection of random thoughts.

The form does not give any indication of the criteria the building official will use in evaluating the report. What constitutes good, fair, or poor condition when filling out the report form.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top