catheral cielings ridge beam

[Mr. Inspector]

2009 IRC R802.3.1 says where ceiling joists or rafter ties are not provided the girder is designed in accordance with accepted engineering practice.

So where do I get this? Do I use the beam chart?

 

[mark handler]

If you do not use ties, it is more than just sizing the beam, it also entails the connection details.

you need an design professional to design it.

Remember the purpose of the ties to resist the thrust that the rafters exert on the walls

 

[Mr. Inspector]

catheral cielings ridge beam

Have a old permit that a previous inspector had approved the plans back in 2005 using 2003 IRC. Plans don't specify framing details. Already built with no inspection. It's a enclosed breezeway. Beam is 12'long resting on existing house and garage walls. Breezeway is 12' x 20'

 

[mark handler]

Have a old permit that a previous inspector had approved the plans back in 2005 using 2003 IRC. Plans don't specify framing details. Already built with no inspection. It's a enclosed breezeway. Beam is 12'long resting on existing house and garage walls. Breezeway is 12' x 20'

...And...?

 

[GBrackins]

and your involvement now is for what if it has been constructed?

 

[Rider Rick]

and your involvement now is for what if it has been constructed?

Final Occupancy.

 

[mark handler]

Final Occupancy.

A previous inspector had approved the plans back in 2005, and Final Occupancy in 2013?

Can you see how it was constructed? If not how can you issue a Final Occupancy?

How many code changes since permits were pulled?

How do you keep a permit active that long?

 

[Min&Max]

In my opinion you have to inspect based on what the code was when the permit was issued. So, what was used for the ridge?

 

[Rider Rick]

Mark,

Coved prior to this inspection NOT APPROVED.

 

[Mr. Inspector]

catheral cielings ridge beam

I am there to inspect. My job is to try to close 1000 open permits that the previous BCO let go. This permit has no inspections and no CO.

 

[Rider Rick]

How can you approve something you can't see?

Open it up or NOT APPROVED that's how I do it, you can do it anyway you see fit.

 

[GCtony]

Rick18071. If that's your zip, closing 1000 permits is we'll.....going to be "interesting" I built my first personal house up there in 87 and never had a single inspection. If you had a question for the inspector, You had to stop by the hotel. Never returned a phone call and the permit office was a desk in his garage. How many years are you going back? 1000 is a big number considering the area.

Keep in mind that many of those people that pulled permits are less at fault than the town and townships. I hope you have what it takes to work with those folks. I truely wish you the best.

On this particular one, knowing what I know about that area, how about asking the HO to explain how it was constructed or contact the contractor who did the work to explain how it was done. The question of the day would be "is there any reason to believe it's unsafe?" If you're asking "does it meet code?" well.......we'll reserve a room for you, one with padded walls.

 

[Daddy-0-]

Your typical screen porch will end up with a ridge beam that will be a single or double lvl usually 11 7/8" all depending on span. You size it like any other beam as though it was a floor. You also need hangers where the rafters connect to the beam to be compliant.

 

[tmurray]

Keep in mind that many of those people that pulled permits are less at fault than the town and townships. I hope you have what it takes to work with those folks. I truely wish you the best.

I agree this is the fault of the municipalities, not the individuals. If you try to have them open and expose you could be opening the municipality to litigation. You should consult your solicitor. We had the same situation here when I started and we decided that we were going to let everything from the past go and from then on we would be carrying out mandatory inspections.

 

[Rider Rick]

I agree this is the fault of the municipalities, not the individuals. If you try to have them open and expose you could be opening the municipality to litigation. You should consult your solicitor. We had the same situation here when I started and we decided that we were going to let everything from the past go and from then on we would be carrying out mandatory inspections.

The good oh boy way of doing business.

 

[Darren Emery]

Your typical screen porch will end up with a ridge beam that will be a single or double lvl usually 11 7/8" all depending on span. You size it like any other beam as though it was a floor. You also need hangers where the rafters connect to the beam to be compliant.

Daddy O - that's my take too, but having trouble finding a code section to require the hangers. Do you have a section to reference?

 

[jar546]

I am there to inspect. My job is to try to close 1000 open permits that the previous BCO let go. This permit has no inspections and no CO.

Wow,............all I can say is good luck with that. Although something is better than nothing, the previous regime (especially if 3rd party) should be having a heft E&O claim to assist the owners with compliance. On the other hand, this speaks pretty well for the contractors who just kept plugging along instead of contacting the township to tell them what was happening. Gotta love Pennsyltucky.

 

[Yankee]

Daddy O - that's my take too, but having trouble finding a code section to require the hangers. Do you have a section to reference?

I would like to see the section that requires hangers also.

 

[mark handler]

I would like to see the section that requires hangers also.

If you do not provide the ties, the construction is no longer prescriptive and you need engineering

There is no way, to verify the connection will work without hangers or a designed gusset.

 

[ICE]

deleted...

 

[GCtony]

Wow,............all I can say is good luck with that. Although something is better than nothing, the previous regime (especially if 3rd party) should be having a heft E&O claim to assist the owners with compliance. On the other hand, this speaks pretty well for the contractors who just kept plugging along instead of contacting the township to tell them what was happening. Gotta love Pennsyltucky.

A code compliance dept. up there is a pretty new thing, relativly speaking. My opionion is 25 years ago, when that area didn't have a real dept. most of the contractors that were doing the work did the best they could with the best intentions of doing it right. The drawings that were used to build houses included a floor plan, a foundation plan and if you were lucky, a front and rear elevation. No sections, details, specs, engineering. I THOUGHT I was one of the best carpenter/ construction workers and did everything right. Looking at it now, there probably isn't a house I framed that would meet modern code. It wasn't that we ignored the messed up code office, we didn't know any better. It's just the way business was done.

The battle Rick may have is getting people to accept "it's no longer 1985, this is how we do things now and the past is the past" The public in rural areas are going to fight the "new" system. How does a code dept go about making things safer while showing the public that they are there to serve? How do you tell someone that lived in a house for 5 or 10 years that they need to open up walls so it can be inspected? It could be a great place to open up a law office. LOL

 

[jar546]

A code compliance dept. up there is a pretty new thing, relativly speaking. My opionion is 25 years ago, when that area didn't have a real dept. most of the contractors that were doing the work did the best they could with the best intentions of doing it right. The drawings that were used to build houses included a floor plan, a foundation plan and if you were lucky, a front and rear elevation. No sections, details, specs, engineering. I THOUGHT I was one of the best carpenter/ construction workers and did everything right. Looking at it now, there probably isn't a house I framed that would meet modern code. It wasn't that we ignored the messed up code office, we didn't know any better. It's just the way business was done. The battle Rick may have is getting people to accept "it's no longer 1985, this is how we do things now and the past is the past" The public in rural areas are going to fight the "new" system. How does a code dept go about making things safer while showing the public that they are there to serve? How do you tell someone that lived in a house for 5 or 10 years that they need to open up walls so it can be inspected? It could be a great place to open up a law office. LOL

Pennsylvania has had an organized, statewide building code (PA-UCC) since April 9th 2004 so after 9 years, they should be getting it by now and this just proves that the oversight of the program is completely lacking.

 

[tmurray]

Pennsylvania has had an organized, statewide building code (PA-UCC) since April 9th 2004 so after 9 years, they should be getting it by now and this just proves that the oversight of the program is completely lacking.

This isn't a local problem. We have jurisdictions here that will give you a permit to build your house without seeing a building permit. They also preform inspections, but do not check to see if deficiencies are fixed.

 

[Rider Rick]

A code compliance dept. up there is a pretty new thing, relativly speaking. My opionion is 25 years ago, when that area didn't have a real dept. most of the contractors that were doing the work did the best they could with the best intentions of doing it right. The drawings that were used to build houses included a floor plan, a foundation plan and if you were lucky, a front and rear elevation. No sections, details, specs, engineering. I THOUGHT I was one of the best carpenter/ construction workers and did everything right. Looking at it now, there probably isn't a house I framed that would meet modern code. It wasn't that we ignored the messed up code office, we didn't know any better. It's just the way business was done. The battle Rick may have is getting people to accept "it's no longer 1985, this is how we do things now and the past is the past" The public in rural areas are going to fight the "new" system. How does a code dept go about making things safer while showing the public that they are there to serve? How do you tell someone that lived in a house for 5 or 10 years that they need to open up walls so it can be inspected? It could be a great place to open up a law office. LOL

What happens when you approve something that fails and someone gets hurt God forbid.

I work in small towns where the same thing was going on and they chewed up inspectors right and left 6 of them in 2 years and then I came along and it was very hard for about the first year. But I stuck to my guns and treated everyone the same with respect and helped the contractors to learn and follow the code.

If they want to really to get a final you can work with them to find out what you need without that much damage.