• Welcome to The Building Code Forum

    Your premier resource for building code knowledge.

    This forum remains free to the public thanks to the generous support of our Sawhorse Members and Corporate Sponsors. Their contributions help keep this community thriving and accessible.

    Want enhanced access to expert discussions and exclusive features? Learn more about the benefits here.

    Ready to upgrade? Log in and upgrade now.

Cutting codes to cut costs of construction

mark handler said:
Penny wise and pound foolish.
More destruction, and death, in natural disasters.
Earthquakes, Hurricanes, Tornados, Wildfires, Blizzards......
Click to expand...
My hypothesis is that it won't affect housing prices at all. I'd love to see it tested, but I'm not going to do that:p
 
tmurray said:
My hypothesis is that it won't affect housing prices at all. I'd love to see it tested, but I'm not going to do that:p
Click to expand...
It won't, it will add to the pocketbook of the contractor.
Cost is not the materials, et al, is not the driver.
Land cost is. And last I noticed we are not making good choices on that.
Removing farmland for housing is stupid.
 
conarb said:
Any government employee who takes money for a permit and diverts it to another department belongs in jail, it's the same as pointing a gun at his head and taking his money, just like all the inspectors here who took bribe money from the sprinkler coalition to go to Minneapolis and vote for sprinklers deserved to be put in jail.
Click to expand...

We do NOT divert it to other Departments, it supports other Divisions within our Department, that all interact with permits and inspections, we just happen to be the gateway. How do you think Planner's and, and Engineers, and Admins, and Management salaries get paid??

And guess what? When construction was slumping, and revenues did not cover even my expenses, all those salaries in other Divisions continued.
 
fatboy said:
We do NOT divert it to other Departments, it supports other Divisions within our Department, that all interact with permits and inspections, we just happen to be the gateway. How do you think Planner's and, and Engineers, and Admins, and Management salaries get paid??

And guess what? When construction was slumping, and revenues did not cover even my expenses, all those salaries in other Divisions continued.
Click to expand...
If you remember Fatboy, it was in Colorado about 20 years ago that a state legislator introduced a bill to pretty much abolish building departments, their only function was to collect a $35 fee for each permit so the city had a record, the bill was defeated but he said at the time that he would reintroduction it if the building departments didn't clean up their collective acts.

Why don't you frigging government employees stop telling the rest of us what to do? I see in Germany there is a movement to take people's freedom away and put speed limits on the autobahn:

Bloomberg said:
A government commission has recommended a speed limit on the autobahns in Germany, the only rich country where a driver doesn’t need to watch the speedometer on most of the highways. So the nation is debating what speed restrictions can actually achieve in terms of traffic safety and climate protection, a conversation the rest of the world should tune in to, as well.

Germany actually has speed limits on about 40 percent of its 13,000 kilometers (8,000 miles) of autobahns, where authorities believe road conditions warrant it and where road repairs are taking place. But the other 60 percent are a territory of freedom unlike anything elsewhere. There are no highway speed limits in Afghanistan or Nepal, either, but anyone who’s tried to drive there knows that going fast is somewhere between risky and suicidal. Besides, Germany’s highway network is the fourth biggest in the world, after those of China, the U.S. and Spain.

The absence of speed limits is a gift from two powerful lobbies: the car-owners’ association ADAC, with more than 20 million members, and the German Association of the Automotive Industry, which represents carmakers and has had close ties to every post-World War II German government.

Germans love fast cars. In 2017, 29 percent of cars registered in Germany had a maximum speed of more than 200 kilometers per hour, around 125 miles an hour. The auto industry loves selling them, making higher profit margins on more powerful cars. That explains large increases in the power of new cars since 2001 — 29 percent in the upper-medium price segment and 37 percent for luxury vehicles, higher than for mass market cars, although they’ve become more powerful, too. ¹
Click to expand...

There is an inherent conflict built in here, government employees tend to be risk-averse people who value safety over freedom.


¹ https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/a...-the-environment-bad-for-germany?srnd=opinion
 
fatboy said:
How do you think Planner's and, and Engineers, and Admins, and Management salaries get paid??
Click to expand...
Out of the General fund.
All departments pay a percentage of cost to cover the city manager, attorney and IT department along with a sq ft cost for rent for the space a department occupies. This is an equitable solution no matter how a department is funded. General fund, or special revenue fund
Engineers charge separate permit and plan review in addition to the building departments.
Zoning bills me quarterly (set hourly rate) for their review of commercial projects are complying with accessible parking, site arrival points and pedestrian access from the public way.
 
mtlogcabin said:
Out of the General fund.
All departments pay a percentage of cost to cover the city manager, attorney and IT department along with a sq ft cost for rent for the space a department occupies. This is an equitable solution no matter how a department is funded. General fund, or special revenue fund
Engineers charge separate permit and plan review in addition to the building departments.
Zoning bills me quarterly (set hourly rate) for their review of commercial projects are complying with accessible parking, site arrival points and pedestrian access from the public way.
Click to expand...
As do we.
 
conarb said:
Why don't you frigging government employees stop telling the rest of us what to do?
Click to expand...
Why don't you and the rest of the "disgruntled public" get together and elect officials who will repeal the building codes?

Oh wait, the majority of people value building codes. A couple old codgers like you don't want to have someone telling you what you can or cant do and it has hurt your feelings. (I thought hurt feelings were more of a problem with the new generation, not yours?)

Building Codes save lives.

I cant argue that they are perfect and don't have flaws, or that all codes are a matter of life safety (energy). But what I can tell you, the State (at least here in WA) adopts the code as law; I am just tasked with enforcing it. If I choose to willingly ignore or take no enforcement action, I can be held civilly or criminally liable.

Want to see change - go vote. Get your friends, family, community, etc. to vote with you. But just my guess, you (conarb) are a fly on the wall with little to no voice because not many agree with you.


Furthermore, stop posting your cr*p - - all you have done is isolate yourself. Your complaints will continue to fall on deaf ears because of your hostility and belligerence.
 
Coder said:
Not going to suggest that! I like getting paid too.
Click to expand...

That's the problem with talking to you guys about it, this is your job and you'll always defend the necessity of doing it, needed or not. Be interesting to see how cities like Oakland will get by suspending codes on their ADUs.
 
Maybe they ought to think about reducing or eliminating property taxes to make housing affordable. Mine are over $200.00 per month.

A lot of zoning ordinances have a minimum house size. Maybe they should put a maximum size allowed say 400 sq ft per sleeping room would limit a 3 bedroom house to 1,200 sq ft. However the law of unintended consequences will kick in a couple of years down the road when their tax base starts dropping because the value of the homes are less and the services provided are the same.

In reality there is no answer to your question. The market is what drives the sale or rental price of a home. Income determines if it is affordable and the minimum wage was never meant to be a living wage. Minimum wages equate to apprenticeship wages you are getting paid while you learn and hone your skills as you move up the ladder in the job market.

Household income and wealth[edit]
Income is the primary factor—not price and availability, that determines housing affordability.[16] In a market economy the distribution of income is the key determinant of the quantity and quality of housing obtained. Therefore, understanding affordable housing challenges requires understanding trends and disparities in income and wealth. Housing is often the single biggest expenditure of low and middle income families. For low and middle income families, their house is also the greatest source of wealth.[17]

The most common approach to measure the affordability of housing has been to consider the percentage of income that a household spends on housing expenditures. Another method of studying affordability looks at the regular hourly wage of full-time workers who are paid only the minimum wage (as set by their local, regional, or national government). The hope is that full-time workers will be able to afford at least a small apartment in the area where they work. Some countries look at those living in relative poverty, which is usually defined as making less than 60% of the median household income. In their policy reports, they consider the presence or absence of housing for people making 60% of the median income.

Inequality and housing[edit]
A number of researchers argue that a shortage of affordable housing – at least in the US – is caused in part by income inequality.[22][23][24] David Rodda noted that from 1984 and 1991, the number of quality rental units decreased as the demand for higher quality housing increased.[22]:148 Through gentrification of older neighbourhoods, for example, in East New York, rental prices increased rapidly as landlords found new residents willing to pay higher market rate for housing and left lower income families without rental units. The ad valorem property tax policy combined with rising prices made it difficult or impossible for low income residents to keep pace.[25
 
Coder said:
Not going to suggest that! I like getting paid too.
Click to expand...

Hey the next town over the hill is looking for sharp guy like yourself! Just putting it out there, my council will probably want to tie me up doing the same research. Already hear about the tiny housing subdivision idea.
 
  • Tell the families of the dead and missing or the recent wild fires why Sprinkler codes should be elininated from the codes, so more willburn in their homes...
  • Tell the people caught in the polar vortex why the energy code should be eliminated so more will die in their homes, and have heating bills they cannot pay.
  • Not a code issue but a cost issue: tell me why a contractor charges 10,000 more for making the walls of a new restroom 8 feet instead of 5 feet for a accessible restroom?
All the codes are there for a reason, you may not understand why, I may not understand why, but they do have a reason.
 
Last edited:
steveray said:
Mark..I'll call BS on part of that....Sprinklers (likely) won't save you from a wildfire....
Click to expand...
Knee-Jerk reaction
If it stopped the building from burning down combined with chapter 7A of the code, yes it could, and it does.
Not BS
2015-Your-Home-Can-Survive-A-Wildfire-1024x576.jpg
 
mark handler said:
Knee-Jerk reaction
If it stopped the building from burning down combined with chapter 7A of the code, yes it could, and it does.
Not BS
2015-Your-Home-Can-Survive-A-Wildfire-1024x576.jpg
Click to expand...
As one can tell from the un-scorched ground around the house, the fire never made it to the house. I also fail to comprehend how sprinklers on the inside of a home would protect from a wildfire. How would interior suppression protect the exterior?
 
Ty J. said:
As one can tell from the un-scorched ground around the house, the fire never made it to the house. I also fail to comprehend how sprinklers on the inside of a home would protect from a wildfire. How would interior suppression protect the exterior?
Click to expand...
The Photo is taken months after, you can see some of the regrowth on the trees
Soot, ash and debris have been cleared from around the structure and the road to it.
and as I stated See Post above RE: Chapter 7A, which is the structure protection.
Sprinklers protect the people
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top