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Electrical Panel inset between studs of garage

Yankee

Yankee

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Joined
Mar 31, 2010
Messages
1,344
Location
New England
When the walls of an attached garage are to be covered with 1/2" type X gyp due to living space above, and the inspection turns up the panel box is inset into (between the) studs of a garage wall, what creative methods are there to meet compliance (besides moving the panel)?
 
Drywall behind maybe if you are really picky......At what point is a steel panelboard going to burn through before all of the plastic boxes for lights and outlets....
 
Is there 1/2" wallboard on the interior side separating the panel from the living space?
 
312.3 Position in Wall.

In walls of concrete, tile, or other noncombustible material, cabinets shall be installed so that the front edge of the cabinet is not set back of the finished surface more than 6 mm (¼ in.). In walls constructed of wood or other combustible material, cabinets shall be flush with the finished surface or project therefrom.

A little more amperage from the main panel than there is in plastic outlet to cause a fire
 
R309.1.2 Other penetrations.

Penetrations through the separation required in Section R309.2 shall be protected by filling the opening around the penetrating item with approved material to resist the free passage of flame and products of combustion.

I believe the panel itself constitutes an approved material to resist the free passage of flame and products of combustion.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Jobsaver said:
R309.1.2 Other penetrations. Penetrations through the separation required in Section R309.2 shall be protected by filling the opening around the penetrating item with approved material to resist the free passage of flame and products of combustion.

I believe the panel itself constitutes an approved material to resist the free passage of flame and products of combustion.
Click to expand...
I am 2009 IRC
 
Is a panel fire rated? I didn't think so. Usually what I do is have the builders fur out a corner so I can install the panel. Get sheetrock on first then fur the wall. This avoids any issues but I am not certain it is necessary.
 
I agree that the panel should be mounted with the required gyp between it and the studs. I don' t feel that a panelboard fits under the paragraph dealing with " other penetrations". Reading that paragraph, it speaks to wires and piping. Once installed between the studs, besides having it moved, are there any suggestions for approval?
 
Sorry, no suggestion here - it's a penetration of a rated separation (in NY) and not permitted unless the rating can be maintained in some fashion.
 
While we're on the topic, here's a serious real question -

Two electrical outlet boxes are installed facing opposing sides of the separation wall, in the same stud bay. Violation?
 
The garage seperation is not fire rated......at least in straight IRC land....and here in CT....if you can use 26 GA duct R309.1.1 (with no protection), why could you not have a panel? Electric guys want to say panel housing thickness? How many receptacles can I have on that wall?
 
Panelboards are required to be of noncombustible construction, presumably to keep an electrical fire contained within the panel should one occur. It seems apparent that a panel will offer at least as much fire resistance, as say, a honeycombed core steel door. The steel comprising panelboard construction is much thicker than the steel skins comprising a typical residential steel door.
 
* * *

Jobsaver [ and others ],

Can you connect the dots [ so-to-speak ] for the jury / audience?

In other words, ...can you provide documentation to the AHJ code

official that is trying to make a determination on this already

installed electrical panel that, when the door is closed, it will

provide equivalent protection as the 1/2" layer of gyp. board.

[ you DO know that common sense cannot be accepted to

the code court ]......[ i.e. - show me the paperwork ]. :D

% % %

 
Mac said:
While we're on the topic, here's a serious real question - Two electrical outlet boxes are installed facing opposing sides of the separation wall, in the same stud bay. Violation?
Click to expand...
Maybe and maybe not only positive negative they can not be back to back.
 
= = =

Jobsaver,

As always, ...thanks for your input!....It is not my intent to "bust

anyone's chops!".....If I did, I apologize to you and the audience!

I DID want to emphasize the need for documenting to the AHJ

code offical trying to make a determination [ in this case,

**Yankee'** original posting. ], that there ARE alternatives

available......To achieve this [ sometimes ], paper documentation

is required......Much like providing more than just a suggestion,

or "in my opinion".

I am familiar with the use of mineral wool and have approved

its use before to satisfy draftstopping requirements......That

said, some of the viewers on this Forum may not be familiar

with its use, or other approved alternatives that might be

offered for this application.

IMO, ...the process of "connecting the dots" [ so to speak ]

helps me to search for an approved method or approved

materials when the "letter of the code" is not met, and I

have others asking me for a solution......Unfortunately, I

am not in the position to simply state "to go ask a design

professional, or plans designer" for a solution......Most

times [ in this AHJ ], ...I have to have a compliant solution

to offer up, and having manufacturer' installation

instructions, ...information from approved testing agencies

& organizations, and other documented and approved

methods & materials, ...goes a very long way towards

a "win - win" solution for everyone.

In my effort to suggest [ connecting the dots ], ...it was

/ is my intent for the various code officials; and especially

the younger, less experienced ones, ...to develop a process

of providing documentation of an alternative when asked.

To perform their own "due diligence" research [ if you will ].

Some may not be familiar with that process!

Also, ...in some locations, the code offical is perceived as

the "Bad Guy" [ "Bad Girl" ] when trying to interpret, administer

& enforce the various codes and ordinances that have been

adopted as law.....For me, having documentation in hand assists

me greatly in countering the perception [ in this AHJ anyway ].

I was not trying to offend anyone!

& & &

 
What does the code say about this? I haven't found anything in the IRC that prevents one or a dozen enclosures in the wall.
 
Jobsaver said:
Northstar. I don't get it. Why post a Wikipedia article suggesting mineral wool may provide an acceptable noncombustible solution, then bust everyone else's chops about providing documentation?Just say'in.
Click to expand...
Take a look at 2009 IBC 713.3.2 Exception 1.2
 
Is the IBC even applicable in this residential application, ..other than for informational

purposes?

.
 
Northstar. Thanks for the explanation. No offense taken. I just did not understand where you were coming from. Thanks again for providing clarity.

I do believe you are correct that Yankee is looking for a documented solution.

Around here, I just tell 'em the folks on the Building Codes Forum said it would work! (lol).

Thanks for all the great posts you contribute to these discussions.
 
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