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Electrical Panel inset between studs of garage

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Thanks **Jobsaver** & **Greg Harris** [ and others ] for making

this Forum work so well!

**Yankee**, ...did you get a satisfactory & compliant answer to

your original question?

FWIW, ...I think that the "rock wool / mineral wool" is an

acceptable, alternative method to use for compliance in this

instance, however, ...the code official in **Yankee'** location

is the one to make that determination.

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This has been really interesting and I thank you all for the thoughts.

Let me back up and start at what I think is the beginning, and that is WHY is type x gyp called out? I do not think it is for fire blocking purposes, and so alternative compliance that address fire blocking don't seem to be a good fit in my mind. Fire blocking is called for in concealed spaces, not as a "skin" material.

Unless I misunderstand, the type x is both non-combustible (like metal) AND a thermal barrier which protects the wood framing from heating up too quickly and combusting (which IS NOT a property of metal). If I combined the metal with some kind of stand-offs from the wood framing and also packed that space with insulation, maybe I would be approaching a type x gyp performance (???). Think more in terms of clearance reductions. . . .
 
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Yankee,

Unless I am reading Section R302.6 [ from the `09 IRC ] wrong, ...the

Type "X" gyp. board is only required on the ceiling of the Garage,

...underneath the habitable room(s) above.



R302.6 Dwelling/garage fire separation.

"The garage shall be separated as required by Table R302.6.......Openings in

garage walls shall comply with :Next('./icod_irc_2009_3_par054.htm')'>Section R302.5.........This provision does not

apply to garage walls that are perpendicular to the adjacent dwelling unit

wall."

TABLE R302.6 - DWELLING / GARAGE SEPARATION:

SEPARATION

MATERIAL

From the residence and attic

Not less than 1⁄2-inch gypsum board or equivalent applied to the garage side

From all habitable rooms above the garage

Not less than 5⁄8-inch Type X gypsum board or equivalent

Structure(s) supporting floor/ceiling assemblies used for separation required by this section

Not less than 1⁄2-inch gypsum board or equivalent

Garages located less than 3 feet from a dwelling unit on the same lot

Not less than 1⁄2-inch gypsum board or equivalent applied to the interior side of exterior walls that are within this area


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Structure(s) supporting floor/ceiling assemblies used for separation required by this sectionNot less than 1⁄2-inch gypsum board or equivalent

The above is for the bearing walls holding up the floor system and roof above, now I see what you mean, type X is not called out in the other sections. . . interesting. Well, it is only a matter of moisture content anyway. Basically serves the same purpose as my original scenario
 
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How about membrane penetration of maximum 2 hours fire-resistance-rate wall by steel electrical boxes that do not exceed 16" sq in area, and aggregate area of openings through the membrane does not exceed 100" sq in any 100' sq of wall area.

Will this work?
 
This is not a 'fire-resistant rated wall", this is a separation in the IRC.......so the rule does not apply.
 
Dennis said:
So the wall between the garage and the home does not need to be fire rated? Is that the thinking?
Click to expand...
Correct. IRC single.family dwelling the requirement between attached garage and living space is not a fire rating. It is a requirement for seperation with a specific material or equivilant.
 
Dennis said:
So the wall between the garage and the home does not need to be fire rated? Is that the thinking?
Click to expand...
Yes sir. That wall has never been a rated wall. Years ago, it was called a modified 1HR wall. Now it's just another wall.
 
So then what is the issue with the panel? Does the panel make the wall not a separation even when sheetrock is on one side?
 
I don't have an issue with it myself, as long as there is a layer of 1/2" drywall separating the panel from the dwelling.............
 
Dennis,

The electrical panelboard is not considered an "equivalent" in providing fire resistance from

the Garage side. While an electrical panelboard may actually provide an amount of time

similar to the 1/2" sheetrock, it is not stated anywhere in the IRC or NEC that I know of.

I am not sure that any standardized testing agency has a rating for your average

electrical panelboard.

Your thoughts..

.
 
fatboy said:
I don't have an issue with it myself, as long as there is a layer of 1/2" drywall separating the panel from the dwelling.............
Click to expand...
This (actually, two large panel boxes and a good sized junction box) are on an outside wall that is required to be gyp'ed to protect the framing holding up the second floor living space. The overall size is about 8 sf.Are you saying that you would allow a panel on the joint wall with only gyp on the living space side?
 
globe trekker said:
Dennis,The electrical panelboard is not considered an "equivalent" in providing fire resistance from

the Garage side. While an electrical panelboard may actually provide an amount of time

similar to the 1/2" sheetrock, it is not stated anywhere in the IRC or NEC that I know of.

I am not sure that any standardized testing agency has a rating for your average

electrical panelboard.

Your thoughts..

.
Click to expand...
'zactly my issue
 
Dennis said:
So then what is the issue with the panel? Does the panel make the wall not a separation even when sheetrock is on one side?
Click to expand...
The gyp seperation is supposed to be on the garage side, exclusive of whether there is gyp or not on the other side
 
& = &

Since we have a non-compliant elec. panel install, ...lets ask

the design professionals on here what they would design /

recommend as a fix.

1. Remove the gypsum board behind the panelboard and

fill the cavity / areas with rock wool,

2. Remove the elec. panel itself and install it in a compliant

location [ this might be the least politically acceptable option ],

3. Remove the gypsum board behind the panelboard and box it

in and seal it with a layer of gypsum [ 1/2" min. ],

4. Remove the gypsum board behind the panelboard and

apply some type of [ actual ] fire rated product / coating

on to the back on the panelboard [ i.e. - a very large putty

pad, ...fire rated ceramic paint, ...other ],

5. other ?

What say ye design professionals out there ? :cool:

Also, ...since this is an electrical issue, what have you

electricians done in the past or present, for compliance

with one of these sit-chee-ay-shuns ?

Thanks!

& = &

 
David Henderson said:
Mac if it were a rated wall there would be a 24" separation per.NEC 300.21
Click to expand...
300.21 does not give dimensional requirements, it sends you to other building codes. One of which is IBC 713.3.2 and by using one of the noted separation designs 1.2 through 1.5 the 24 inch horizontal separation can be reduced to side by side but not back to back.

300.21 Spread of Fire or Products of Combustion. See related UL

Electrical installations in hollow spaces, vertical shafts, and ventilation or air-handling ducts shall be made so that the possible spread of fire or products of combustion will not be substantially increased. Openings around electrical penetrations into or through fire-resistant-rated walls, partitions, floors, or ceilings shall be firestopped using approved methods to maintain the fire resistance rating.

Informational Note: Directories of electrical construction materials published by qualified testing laboratories contain many listing installation restrictions necessary to maintain the fire-resistive rating of assemblies where penetrations or openings are made. Building codes also contain restrictions on membrane penetrations on opposite sides of a fire-resistance-rated wall assembly. An example is the 600-mm (24-in.) minimum horizontal separation that usually applies between boxes installed on opposite sides of the wall. Assistance in complying with 300.21 can be found in building codes, fire resistance directories, and product listings.
 
"This (actually, two large panel boxes and a good sized junction box) are on an outside wall that is required to be gyp'ed to protect the framing holding up the second floor living space. The overall size is about 8 sf.

Are you saying that you would allow a panel on the joint wall with only gyp on the living space side?"

I misunderstood, thought it was the common wall, yes I have allowed it in the common wall.

Bearing wall, I have heartburn with that.
 
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