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emergency escape and garage

T-Bird

Registered User
Joined
May 7, 2013
Messages
80
Location
Seattle
We can discuss this until we are blue and never agree and that is okay because the one you have to convince is the Building Official for you project. I can tell you the vast majority will not agree with you. However if your AHJ does then that settles it. I would not agree with your design and I would base my decision on the following

Effective Use of the International Residential Code
It is important to understand that the IRC contains coverage for what is conventional and common in residential construction practice. While the IRC will provide all of the needed coverage for most residential construction, it might not address construction practices and systems that are atypical or rarely encountered in the industry.


R104.1 General.
The building official is hereby authorized and directed to enforce the provisions of this code. The building official shall have the authority to render interpretations of this code and to adopt policies and procedures in order to clarify the application of its provisions. Such interpretations, policies and procedures shall be in compliance with the intent and purpose of this code. Such policies and procedures shall not have the effect of waiving requirements specifically provided for in this code.
 

T-Bird

Registered User
Joined
May 7, 2013
Messages
80
Location
Seattle
"Such interpretations, policies and procedures shall be in compliance with the intent and purpose of this code."
You have not shown it is the intent or purpose of the code to limit escape from a garage from the basement. All you can do is use your authority to end any dicussion of what is allowable. You have always believed that the code prevents this, but when challenged with what the code actually says (or doesn't say) you simply cannot remove the preconceived notions that are living in your head. The code exists to keep the public safe and there is no safety concern associated with escape through and from the garage. I have demonstrated that it is actually a safer route. It is a shame you can't give up your preconceived notions.
 

Rick18071

Sawhorse
Joined
Nov 28, 2009
Messages
2,640
Location
Poconos/eastern PA
Effective Use of the International Residential Code
It is important to understand that the IRC contains coverage for what is conventional and common in residential construction practice. While the IRC will provide all of the needed coverage for most residential construction, it might not address construction practices and systems that are atypical or rarely encountered in the industry.

Maybe there are not many basements in your area but is very conventional and common where I am to have a garage in a basement. A basement is a story. The garage is a room in the basement. The code does not tell you in which room the eero is to be. If they had a swinging door or a eero sized window from inside the garage or any other room to the outside I would approve it.

According to my research only 2% of fires start in a garage but over 80% start in kitchens. I think the code should not allow a means of egress or an eero in a kitchen.
 

ADAguy

Sawhorse
Joined
Sep 11, 2013
Messages
5,262
Location
California
I have clouded the stair. It leads to the main floor where the front door (means of egress) is located.
Fire originates on 1st floor, what then "T" bird? Separate and independent, direct to the public way without obstruction by only exiting from the window or door in an exterior wall. What is your beef, already built structure?
 

T-Bird

Registered User
Joined
May 7, 2013
Messages
80
Location
Seattle
Fire originates on 1st floor, what then "T" bird? Separate and independent, direct to the public way without obstruction by only exiting from the window or door in an exterior wall. What is your beef, already built structure?
I do not understand your question?
 

mtlogcabin

Sawhorse
Joined
Oct 17, 2009
Messages
7,837
Location
Big Sky Country
It is not my preconceived notion that you are not meeting the intent of the code. Not every conceivable design can be addressed in a code and that is why the code gives the building official the authority to render decisions and interpretations when applying the code. I gave you one about installing a man door within your garage door and you ignored it. There are a number of ways to rectify the code for your design but your preconceived notion is there is nothing wrong with using the garage door as an EERO therefore there is no code issue in your humble opinion

Looking your plans over you do not identify an EERO anywhere on those plans
Your garage door does not meet code to be an EERO

So forget you are going through a "garage" to get to the EERO. Show me how your EERO meets R310.1.1 if it is a window or R310.3 if it is a door

R310.1.1 Operational constraints and opening control devices.
Emergency escape and rescue openings shall be operational from the inside of the room without the use of keys, tools or special knowledge. Window opening control devices on windows serving as a required emergency escape and rescue opening shall comply with ASTM F2090.

R310.3 Emergency escape and rescue doors.
Where a door is provided as the required emergency escape and rescue opening, it shall be a side-hinged door or a slider. Where the opening is below the adjacent grade, it shall be provided with an area well.
 

ADAguy

Sawhorse
Joined
Sep 11, 2013
Messages
5,262
Location
California
Everyone is in agreement that a bedroom EERO has to open directly to a public way or yard. This is stated in section 310.1. What code section states the basement needs an EERO which open directly to the public way or yard, same section 310.1. There is nothing in this section even bedroom EERO that say you can not go through the garage. Would you allow a bedroom EERO through a garage, NO. Then how can you let a basement EERO through a garage.
Consider if this "not a bedroom" was being used as a game room; how then would the players escape?
 

T-Bird

Registered User
Joined
May 7, 2013
Messages
80
Location
Seattle
It is not my preconceived notion that you are not meeting the intent of the code. Not every conceivable design can be addressed in a code and that is why the code gives the building official the authority to render decisions and interpretations when applying the code. I gave you one about installing a man door within your garage door and you ignored it. There are a number of ways to rectify the code for your design but your preconceived notion is there is nothing wrong with using the garage door as an EERO therefore there is no code issue in your humble opinion

Looking your plans over you do not identify an EERO anywhere on those plans
Your garage door does not meet code to be an EERO

So forget you are going through a "garage" to get to the EERO. Show me how your EERO meets R310.1.1 if it is a window or R310.3 if it is a door

R310.1.1 Operational constraints and opening control devices.
Emergency escape and rescue openings shall be operational from the inside of the room without the use of keys, tools or special knowledge. Window opening control devices on windows serving as a required emergency escape and rescue opening shall comply with ASTM F2090.

R310.3 Emergency escape and rescue doors.
Where a door is provided as the required emergency escape and rescue opening, it shall be a side-hinged door or a slider. Where the opening is below the adjacent grade, it shall be provided with an area well.
We have already established that a garage door does not meet eero opening requirements, that is not disputed. The question is do you agree/disagree that the IRC does not prohibit/restrict eero from a garage, or any other space for that matter, located in a basement?
 

T-Bird

Registered User
Joined
May 7, 2013
Messages
80
Location
Seattle
Consider if this "not a bedroom" was being used as a game room; how then would the players escape?
Yes, lets remove bedrooms from the equation. Everyone agrees that a bedroom requires it own eero and cannot escape from any eero outside of the room. The remaining basement requires one eero, and there is no restriction on where that eero is located in that basement. So in your game room senario players escape through this required eero, whereever it is located. In that room, or in another space. There is no restriction.
 
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