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emergency escape and garage

Maybe some of the problem is the floor plan we are looking at

Can you post one of the basement

one of the ground floor
 
Convince me otherwise, provide the code section that tells me I'm wrong.
I'd love to know why.


Just like you could not have an EERO for a bedroom open to a garage.

Or some have proposed going from one bedroom to a connecting bedroom, and use the connecting bedroom EERO as the means to meet code form the first bedroom.

Code says "direct"

Plus it is also the intent for a means for firefighters to get in.
 
We amend the heck out of that section and actually don't require it in an unfinished basement...Or when you finish it w/o bedrooms for that matter...

Tbirds argument is that the garage is part of the basement and therefore the EERO is allowed to be there.
I agree on a strict reading that is how it sounds. But due to the fact that the garage is required to be "separated" from the "dwelling", EERO required in the "dwelling"
 
Another option would be to construct a hallway to an egress door on that level separatedining from the garage. This option would naturallyrics take floor space from the garage.
 
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Maybe some of the problem is the floor plan we are looking at

Can you post one of the basement

one of the ground floor

Egress and Escape from basement diagramed on the floor plans (uploaded)

The EERO is located at an exterior wall leading DIRECTLY outside to a yard that leads DIRECTLY to a ROW.

What does the term "directly" mean? Directly from where? The "Space"? Which Space, the basement?
The basement is not a space it is a level. The garage is at the basement.

I still do not see or understand where in this code it says an EERO cannot be in the garage.
Steveray has the only good argument stating fire separation is required between dwelling and garage per Section 302.6.
But my counter argument is that in Section 310 EERO is required for basements (a story), it does not say dwelling for which "garage" is not included in the definition. The intent is escape from the story. The garage is on that story.
 

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Egress and Escape from basement diagramed on the floor plans (uploaded)

The EERO is located at an exterior wall leading DIRECTLY outside to a yard that leads DIRECTLY to a ROW.

What does the term "directly" mean? Directly from where? The "Space"? Which Space, the basement?
The basement is not a space it is a level. The garage is at the basement.

I still do not see or understand where in this code it says an EERO cannot be in the garage.
Steveray has the only good argument stating fire separation is required between dwelling and garage per Section 302.6.
But my counter argument is that in Section 310 EERO is required for basements (a story), it does not say dwelling for which "garage" is not included in the definition. The intent is escape from the story. The garage is on that story.


Also escape from each bedroom in a house or apartment and

Let firefighters have a direct means to get in

Which you do not want the eero to dump back into a building.

What does the term "directly" mean,
In most uses in the code it means what it says

Direct to the outside as in I-4 to make an E. a door from the classroom direct to the outside
 
Egress and Escape from basement diagramed on the floor plans (uploaded)

The EERO is located at an exterior wall leading DIRECTLY outside to a yard that leads DIRECTLY to a ROW.

What does the term "directly" mean? Directly from where? The "Space"? Which Space, the basement?
The basement is not a space it is a level. The garage is at the basement.

I still do not see or understand where in this code it says an EERO cannot be in the garage.
Steveray has the only good argument stating fire separation is required between dwelling and garage per Section 302.6.
But my counter argument is that in Section 310 EERO is required for basements (a story), it does not say dwelling for which "garage" is not included in the definition. The intent is escape from the story. The garage is on that story.



Actual exit looks good

I would say the EERO still does not meet code.

We are not a basement area, so do not know accepted practices.

Maybe others that deal with basements has some input
 
I am totally with T-bird here.

The Requirement for EERO in a basement without any sleeping rooms is that there is one EERO opening directly to a yard or public way. There are no requirements saying you can't walk through other spaces to get to the EERO. You could pass through furnace rooms, toilet rooms, fireworks assembly rooms, garages, any or multiple of them. Note that if there is a sleeping room then that exact sleeping room would need an EERO and you could NOT pass through any other space to get to the EERO.

As long as the basement itself has one EERO I think it is compliant. T-bird's plan is not that the EERO opens into the garage, it is that a person passes through the garage to get to the EERO, I don't see anything in Section 310 that prohibits that.
 
Egress and Escape from basement diagramed on the floor plans (uploaded)

The EERO is located at an exterior wall leading DIRECTLY outside to a yard that leads DIRECTLY to a ROW.

What does the term "directly" mean? Directly from where? The "Space"? Which Space, the basement?
The basement is not a space it is a level. The garage is at the basement.

I still do not see or understand where in this code it says an EERO cannot be in the garage.
Steveray has the only good argument stating fire separation is required between dwelling and garage per Section 302.6.
But my counter argument is that in Section 310 EERO is required for basements (a story), it does not say dwelling for which "garage" is not included in the definition. The intent is escape from the story. The garage is on that story.


Also escape from each bedroom in a house or apartment and

Let firefighters have a direct means to get in.

Which you do not want the eero to dump back into a building
I am totally with T-bird here.

The Requirement for EERO in a basement without any sleeping rooms is that there is one EERO opening directly to a yard or public way. There are no requirements saying you can't walk through other spaces to get to the EERO. You could pass through furnace rooms, toilet rooms, fireworks assembly rooms, garages, any or multiple of them. Note that if there is a sleeping room then that exact sleeping room would need an EERO and you could NOT pass through any other space to get to the EERO.

As long as the basement itself has one EERO I think it is compliant. T-bird's plan is not that the EERO opens into the garage, it is that a person passes through the garage to get to the EERO, I don't see anything in Section 310 that prohibits that.


So if a bedroom no

But a basement only yes??

Where do you see in the code wording this is allowed?


Emergency escape and rescue openings shall open directly into a public way, or to a yard or court that opens to a public way.


 
I am totally with T-bird here.

The Requirement for EERO in a basement without any sleeping rooms is that there is one EERO opening directly to a yard or public way. There are no requirements saying you can't walk through other spaces to get to the EERO. You could pass through furnace rooms, toilet rooms, fireworks assembly rooms, garages, any or multiple of them. Note that if there is a sleeping room then that exact sleeping room would need an EERO and you could NOT pass through any other space to get to the EERO.

As long as the basement itself has one EERO I think it is compliant. T-bird's plan is not that the EERO opens into the garage, it is that a person passes through the garage to get to the EERO, I don't see anything in Section 310 that prohibits that.


In this house

With your approval

You use the same stair for exit and eero

Why require an eero then??
 
cda, we're obviously talking past each other a bit, I'm guessing if beer were involved we would ultimately agree.

It seems clear that there has to be both a fully compliant means of egress from the basement and also an EERO. Both IRC sections 310 and 311 must be met. I suspect the crux of the problem is that we are used to applying the EERO requirement to sleeping rooms, which clearly require an opening directly from the room to the exterior. The non-sleeping-room-basement requirement is that there is an EERO somewhere in the basement, there is no stipulation as to how far it is away, or how may interior doors you have to go through to get to it, only that it is on the basement level and it opens directly to a yard or public way.
 
cda, we're obviously talking past each other a bit, I'm guessing if beer were involved we would ultimately agree.

It seems clear that there has to be both a fully compliant means of egress from the basement and also an EERO. Both IRC sections 310 and 311 must be met. I suspect the crux of the problem is that we are used to applying the EERO requirement to sleeping rooms, which clearly require an opening directly from the room to the exterior. The non-sleeping-room-basement requirement is that there is an EERO somewhere in the basement, there is no stipulation as to how far it is away, or how may interior doors you have to go through to get to it, only that it is on the basement level and it opens directly to a yard or public way.



Ok now that argument makes since

Along with the most current floor plans

In this case it might fly???

That would be up to the ahj if they will let the non garage basement area, eero through the garage ??


You partially won me over to the approval column
 
The first time that I replied to the thread I had not looked at the drawing and did not know that the garage is on the basement level. So I said that the garage was a no go for an EERO. Well then, that's wrong. There's two ways out of the basement. Up the stairs or out of the garage. I would say no to the garage door but not the garage with a proper window or door.
 
BASEMENT. A story that is not a story above grade plane. (see “Story above grade plane”).




[RB]STORY ABOVE GRADE PLANE. Any story having its finished floor surface entirely above grade plane, or in which the finished surface of the floor next above is either of the following:

  1. 1.More than 6 feet (1829 mm) above grade plane.

  2. 2.More than 12 feet (3658 mm) above the finished ground level at any point.
 
Non sequitur semantics!
A garage no matter where it's attached to the dwelling by the fire separation is not interior or inclusive as mechanical rooms.
Using the basement logic would contradict the EERO provisions for example passage from walk out basements, enclosed patios and allowing passage through conditioned crawl.
 
Mr. Bird,
The fact that Francis does not agree is not a good sign. Perhaps as Francis suggested, a hallway to the exterior is the best option.
 
Francis has this right. The code section you're apparently not reading has been posted numerous times - you've even posted it yourself:

Section 310.1 Emergency escape and rescue openings required.
Basements, habitable attics and every sleeping room shall have not less than one operable emergency escape and rescue opening. Where basements contain one or more sleeping rooms, an emergency escape and rescue opening shall be required in each sleeping room. Emergency escape and rescue openings shall open directly into a public way, or to a yard or court that opens to a public way.

Exception: Storm shelters and basements used only to house mechanical equipment not exceeding a total floor area of 200 square feet.

A garage, which is what you have labeled on your plan, has to be separated from the dwelling area and a bedroom cannot directly access it. Those code sections have been posted too. The purpose for those requirements are so that when a fire starts in the garage (which is where a fair number of fires start), you don't have to go through the fire to get out side.

You're going to be putting in an egress window. There's no way within the code to get out of it.
 
Francis has this right. The code section you're apparently not reading has been posted numerous times - you've even posted it yourself:



A garage, which is what you have labeled on your plan, has to be separated from the dwelling area and a bedroom cannot directly access it. Those code sections have been posted too. The purpose for those requirements are so that when a fire starts in the garage (which is where a fair number of fires start), you don't have to go through the fire to get out side.

You're going to be putting in an egress window. There's no way within the code to get out of it.



So what if,,,

There is a basement in a house.

The only thing in the basement is a garage.


An EERO is required since it is a basement?

If so, then a regular door to the outside meets the requirement?
 
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