Fire station sleeping area

[cda]

2015 IBC


Occupancy type??

If individual bedrooms, are eero required?

 

[steveray]

Is it sprinklered?

 

[cda]

Is it sprinklered?

Sorry yes

 

[Inspector Gift]

Our town recently built a new fire station with 12 sleeping rooms. We required Emergency Escape and Rescue Openings and interconnected smoke detectors for each sleeping room plus CO detectors in the adjoining hallways. The building was also fully protected by an automatic sprinkler system.

 

[linnrg]

Our town recently built a new fire station with 12 sleeping rooms. We required Emergency Escape and Rescue Openings and interconnected smoke detectors for each sleeping room plus CO detectors in the adjoining hallways. The building was also fully protected by an automatic sprinkler system.

how much did you spend and can you share pdf's of the floor plans/design. I am involved with helping to get a grant on a new station. My email is rlinn@soldotna.org

 

[cda]

Our town recently built a new fire station with 12 sleeping rooms. We required Emergency Escape and Rescue Openings and interconnected smoke detectors for each sleeping room plus CO detectors in the adjoining hallways. The building was also fully protected by an automatic sprinkler system.

2015 Edition or other?

 

[steveray]

R3 or R1 maybe depending...


Sounds like most likely...

1030.1 General. In addition to the means of egress required
by this chapter, provisions shall be made for emergency
escape and rescue openings in Group R-2 occupancies in
accordance with Tables 1006.3.2(1) and 1006.3.2(2) and
Group R-3 occupancies. Basements and sleeping rooms
below the fourth story above grade plane shall have at least
one exterior emergency escape and rescue opening in accordance
with this section. Where basements contain one or
more sleeping rooms, emergency escape and rescue openings
shall be required in each sleeping room, but shall not be
required in adjoining areas of the basement. Such openings
shall open directly into a public way or to a yard or court that
opens to a public way.
Exceptions:
1. Basements with a ceiling height of less than 80
inches (2032 mm) shall not be required to have
emergency escape and rescue openings.
2. Emergency escape and rescue openings are not
required from basements or sleeping rooms that
have an exit door or exit access door that opens
directly into a public way or to a yard, court or exterior
exit balcony that opens to a public way.

 

[cda]

Hummmmmm

R-1, now that is interesting, and seems to fit more than R-2, R-3, and R-4

 

[mtlogcabin]

Do you have more than 10 firefighters on duty during one shift? If not it would be an R-3 and EERO will be required

310.3 Residential Group R-1.
Residential occupancies containing sleeping units where the occupants are primarily transient in nature, including:
Boarding houses (transient) with more than 10 occupants
Congregate living facilities (transient) with more than 10 occupants

CONGREGATE LIVING FACILITIES. A building or part thereof that contains sleeping units where residents share bathroom and/or kitchen facilities.

TRANSIENT. Occupancy of a dwelling unit or sleeping unit for not more than 30 days.

310.5 Residential Group R-3.
Residential occupancies where the occupants are primarily permanent in nature and not classified as Group R-1, R-2, R-4 or I, including:
Buildings that do not contain more than two dwelling units
Boarding houses (nontransient) with 16 or fewer occupants
Boarding houses (transient) with 10 or fewer occupants
Care facilities that provide accommodations for five or fewer persons receiving care
Congregate living facilities (nontransient) with 16 or fewer occupants
Congregate living facilities (transient) with 10 or fewer occupants

 

[cda]

Do you have more than 10 firefighters on duty during one shift? If not it would be an R-3 and EERO will be required

310.3 Residential Group R-1.
Residential occupancies containing sleeping units where the occupants are primarily transient in nature, including:
Boarding houses (transient) with more than 10 occupants
Congregate living facilities (transient) with more than 10 occupants

CONGREGATE LIVING FACILITIES. A building or part thereof that contains sleeping units where residents share bathroom and/or kitchen facilities.

TRANSIENT. Occupancy of a dwelling unit or sleeping unit for not more than 30 days.

310.5 Residential Group R-3.
Residential occupancies where the occupants are primarily permanent in nature and not classified as Group R-1, R-2, R-4 or I, including:
Buildings that do not contain more than two dwelling units
Boarding houses (nontransient) with 16 or fewer occupants
Boarding houses (transient) with 10 or fewer occupants
Care facilities that provide accommodations for five or fewer persons receiving care
Congregate living facilities (nontransient) with 16 or fewer occupants
Congregate living facilities (transient) with 10 or fewer occupants

Would you call a firefighter

Permanent

or

Transient

 

[ADAguy]

Transient as they change from shift to shift and though permanent employees they are not permanently domiciled. Think of them as similar to cruise ship employees. Not all cruise ships are large (smiling).

 

[mtlogcabin]

Transient or Non-Transient it really does not matter except for applying the code requirements which need to be the same no matter if they are fire fighters or a resident in a hospital or any other 24 hour shift job that you maybe able to sleep during a down time

The code does not address everything and sometimes we just have to make a decision right or wrong and stick with it.

 

[Inspector Gift]

2015 Edition or other?

The plans were submitted in early 2016, approved in 2017, and were designed using the 2014 Oregon Structural Specialty Code (which was based upon the 2012 IBC). The building was completed in early 2019.

 

[cda]

Transient or Non-Transient it really does not matter except for applying the code requirements which need to be the same no matter if they are fire fighters or a resident in a hospital or any other 24 hour shift job that you maybe able to sleep during a down time

The code does not address everything and sometimes we just have to make a decision right or wrong and stick with it.

The question is in regards to if eero is required

2015

Appears if called an R-1/ transient

Not required

 

[khsmith55]

ICC's 2015 re-write of EERO's really complicated things from the previous Editions. Pay special ATTENTION to Tables 1006.3.2(1) and 1006.3.2(2) as referenced. Generally speaking, a sprinklered building with two exits off the Story DOES NOT require EERO's. The occupants (fire fighters) in the R Occupancy are considered non-transient (i.e. they are familiar with their surroundings, un-like a Hotel occupancy). If the "calculated" occupant load of the residential area is less than 16, the occupancy can be classified as an R3, if greater than 16 then the Occupancy is R2. Note, the R3 Occupancy has no handicap requirements (bad idea) and the R2 Occupancy must be Type B Accessible Sleeping and bathing units (better but still not great). What I have typically done is to provide fully accessible (ANSI A117) bathing facilities in the "public" accessible restroom and make the sleeping quarters Type B Accessible. Other Occupancies that are typical in a Fire Station are S2, B and A3 (meeting rooms).

Ken

 

[cda]

ICC's 2015 re-write of EERO's really complicated things from the previous Editions. Pay special ATTENTION to Tables 1006.3.2(1) and 1006.3.2(2) as referenced. Generally speaking, a sprinklered building with two exits off the Story DOES NOT require EERO's. The occupants (fire fighters) in the R Occupancy are considered non-transient (i.e. they are familiar with their surroundings, un-like a Hotel occupancy). If the "calculated" occupant load of the residential area is less than 16, the occupancy can be classified as an R3, if greater than 16 then the Occupancy is R2. Note, the R3 Occupancy has no handicap requirements (bad idea) and the R2 Occupancy must be Type B Accessible Sleeping and bathing units (better but still not great). What I have typically done is to provide fully accessible (ANSI A117) bathing facilities in the "public" accessible restroom and make the sleeping quarters Type B Accessible. Other Occupancies that are typical in a Fire Station are S2, B and A3 (meeting rooms).

Ken

Agree, trying to get to where I can say EERO not required. That is why I thought R-1

Only showing one stair off second floor, about ten occupant load.

And two bedrooms on the first floor.

 

[khsmith55]

Agree, trying to get to where I can say EERO not required. That is why I thought R-1

Only showing one stair off second floor, about ten occupant load.

And two bedrooms on the first floor.

CDA: I think you could argue an R1 Occupancy (pointing out the R1 requirements are more restrictive than an R2), however one of your First Story Units (including bathing facilities) would have to be fully Accessible (ANSI A117). This might be a pretty big trade-off to not have EERO.

 

[Builder Bob]

R-2 - most like a live/work style arrangement - EERO are required and ADA is required - Visitors come to the station for tours, fire prevention, and families - If a smaller community, often used a a community hall............

If the building is ADA Title 2 government building - very few exceptions exist for fire stations - see DOJ rulings for fire stations - including one city that had a battalion chief's office written up for not providing ADA accessible restroom facilities/ shower are for the battalion chief.

 

[Tim Mailloux]

my firm does a lot of fire stations, and we typically classify them as non-separated mixed use B, S-2 & R-2 and have never had it questions by the local AHJ.

B = administrative areas
S-2 = apparatus bays & equipment storage
R-2 = sleeping quarters

Sometimes we also have to add an A occupancy into the mix depending on how large the assembly spaces get (day room, gym, training rooms).

 

[TheCommish]

Agree with Tim R-2 for sleeping occupancy in a mixed use building. I see nothing in the code that requires a EERO in a R2. For the comfort of the room occupant a window that operates is nice.

 

[cda]

my firm does a lot of fire stations, and we typically classify them as non-separated mixed use B, S-2 & R-2 and have never had it questions by the local AHJ.

B = administrative areas
S-2 = apparatus bays & equipment storage
R-2 = sleeping quarters

Sometimes we also have to add an A occupancy into the mix depending on how large the assembly spaces get (day room, gym, training rooms).

Main question

Have you been requiring EERO in each bedroom

If not why

 

[cda]

Agree with Tim R-2 for sleeping occupancy in a mixed use building. I see nothing in the code that requires a EERO in a R2. For the comfort of the room occupant a window that operates is nice.

Depends on edition of IBC

Which edition are you referencing and why no eero

 

[TheCommish]

ok that was to broad of a statement, if the area was a dwelling unit EERO is need, not if it is a sleeping unit. I think, what say Tim or Ron ?
2015 IBC

 

[khsmith55]

TheCommish; Refer to footnote a also, EERO's required. As I mentioned in my previous post, earlier Editions simply said, if you have a sprinkler system NO EERO needed. This has been debated since the UBC days when R occupancies above the third floor in sprinklered buildings didn't need EERO's, then ICBO changed it to ALL R occupancies in a sprinklered building, which carried over to the IBC, until I think the 2015 when the reference to number of exits appeared. Classic ICC, lets muddy the waters.

Ken