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Sorry but it's time to go.
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vegas paul
Silver Member
Re: Home Depot crew
Sixty foot rigs on a fifty foot roof is designed to protect the collapsive soils... if they fall off, the roofer only penetrates maximum of 10 feet, thereby complying with the geotechnical report requirement that excavation greater than 10 feet requires compacted fill to be recompacted to 95% max. density and tested... Sounds like they've got it covered. (
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Sixty foot rigs on a fifty foot roof is designed to protect the collapsive soils... if they fall off, the roofer only penetrates maximum of 10 feet, thereby complying with the geotechnical report requirement that excavation greater than 10 feet requires compacted fill to be recompacted to 95% max. density and tested... Sounds like they've got it covered. (
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conarb
Registered User
Re: Home Depot crew
Okay Tiger, what authority does a building inspector have to enforce OSHA regs? What's next, Federal immigration laws
Okay Tiger, what authority does a building inspector have to enforce OSHA regs? What's next, Federal immigration laws
Guest
Re: Home Depot crew
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conarb
Registered User
Re: Home Depot crew
Tiger:
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for inspectors taking everything over on the jobsite, it's just that I've always been told that their authority is limited to enforcing the codes. I've questioned this with things like what about Workers' Comp? You require comp certification before issuing the permit, why can't you then enforce Comp requirements, CalOSHA requirements, Immigration requirements, etc. The field inspector is on the ground and sees most everything all the time, other enforcement agencies are seldom around.
Okay Uncle Bob, strap on your sidearm and go to work.
Tiger:
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for inspectors taking everything over on the jobsite, it's just that I've always been told that their authority is limited to enforcing the codes. I've questioned this with things like what about Workers' Comp? You require comp certification before issuing the permit, why can't you then enforce Comp requirements, CalOSHA requirements, Immigration requirements, etc. The field inspector is on the ground and sees most everything all the time, other enforcement agencies are seldom around.
Okay Uncle Bob, strap on your sidearm and go to work.
Guest
Re: Home Depot crew
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vegas paul
Silver Member
Re: Home Depot crew
Tiger - I applaud you. When (if?) you get around to writing down your code, send me a copy... I could use it. Maybe some of us could get a few items added to our own municipal ordinances. Keep up the good work.
Tiger - I applaud you. When (if?) you get around to writing down your code, send me a copy... I could use it. Maybe some of us could get a few items added to our own municipal ordinances. Keep up the good work.
fatboy
Administrator
Re: Home Depot crew
Yeah.........I read through this thread twice......while I can appreciate tigers desire for a safe work site, I really have a problem with enforcing rules that are outside an inspectors requirements. Yes, you can make threats to invite the party that actually has jurisdiction so that compliance can be required, but really? We have enough problems getting compliance with the codes that we are tasked with, I don't want to create a new "fatboy" code that I try to enforce, and justify. JMHO, to each his own, if that works for you...........
Yeah.........I read through this thread twice......while I can appreciate tigers desire for a safe work site, I really have a problem with enforcing rules that are outside an inspectors requirements. Yes, you can make threats to invite the party that actually has jurisdiction so that compliance can be required, but really? We have enough problems getting compliance with the codes that we are tasked with, I don't want to create a new "fatboy" code that I try to enforce, and justify. JMHO, to each his own, if that works for you...........
Guest
Re: Home Depot crew
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Guest
Re: Home Depot crew
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Re: Home Depot crew
Historically, there have been people in authoritative positions that have proclaim that what they are doing or making a person do, is in their best interest. Hitler comes to mind, a reprobate? In my own opinion, the best thing a building code official can do for everyone concerned, including other code officials, is to learn how to, and inspected in accordance with the building codes
Historically, there have been people in authoritative positions that have proclaim that what they are doing or making a person do, is in their best interest. Hitler comes to mind, a reprobate? In my own opinion, the best thing a building code official can do for everyone concerned, including other code officials, is to learn how to, and inspected in accordance with the building codes
Guest
Re: Home Depot crew
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Re: Home Depot crew
Excuse me, a LAW in Oregon that requires an inspector to write the code section when citing code - sorry, but I never heard of that rule. I do know of some jurisdictions where the BO made it a requirement, but to my knowledge it wasn't state law. Do you have the section of Oregon law that states that? I've just never heard of it being state law in Oregon.
Excuse me, a LAW in Oregon that requires an inspector to write the code section when citing code - sorry, but I never heard of that rule. I do know of some jurisdictions where the BO made it a requirement, but to my knowledge it wasn't state law. Do you have the section of Oregon law that states that? I've just never heard of it being state law in Oregon.
Guest
Re: Home Depot crew
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JBI
Registered User
Re: Home Depot crew
You could start with Chapter 33, Safeguards During Construction.
You could start with Chapter 33, Safeguards During Construction.
FyrBldgGuy
Silver Member
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2009
- Messages
- 356
Re: Home Depot crew
"Fabricated Code" or "Fabricode" (code made up by an inspector or code official) causes harm to every code official and inspector. If you as an inspector create, modify, change, wildly interpret the code to be something other than what is written or formally interpreted, then you diminish all of our abilities to enforce the code. Trust in public officials is very important to success. There are three specific terms "misfeasance, malfeasance and nonfeasance". Whether the code official does it for a good reason or not the misapplication of the code (misfeasance) is typically a violation of state level law. Any code official that believes they have governmental immunity due to there status as an inspector and then enforces codes that have not been adopted is likely to have "pierced" that immunity and is subject to personnel liability. You may get away with that because of your status, but you may also end up loosing in a court case. And your employer is not required to protect you if you stepped outside of your authority.
As an example see http://courts.michigan.gov/supremecourt/Clerk/10-08/133433/133433-Opinion.pdf
The creation of Law (Administrative Code) is a legislative act, not a discretionary or ministerial act.
A Police Officer can decide whether or not to give you a ticket for speeding, but he/she can not change the law as to the speed limit, neither can a Police Officer grant you the right to speed.
If it isn't in the adopted code it is not a violation.
Applying Administrative Law outside of your authority is a similar matter. However, there are ways to approach the OSHA/EPA/ADA type laws that are not within your authority. One way is to contact the appropriate authority. If a building inspector saw a drug lab during an inspection would that inspector try to bust the lab or call the police department?
You might also let the offender know that you may be called to testify regarding the matter, such as an OSHA violation. A code official should also avoid committing an OSHA violation by acting in the same manner of disregard as a construction crew that fails to meet OSHA requirements.
This all comes with a grain of salt. As I was once terminated from a fire department for refusing to sign off on a series of fire alarm plans for schools in Northern Colorado that clearly did not meet the ADA requirements (no notification devices in classrooms). It is gradifying to see the IFC and IBC applying the same requirements for fire alarm systems as does the ADA.
"Fabricated Code" or "Fabricode" (code made up by an inspector or code official) causes harm to every code official and inspector. If you as an inspector create, modify, change, wildly interpret the code to be something other than what is written or formally interpreted, then you diminish all of our abilities to enforce the code. Trust in public officials is very important to success. There are three specific terms "misfeasance, malfeasance and nonfeasance". Whether the code official does it for a good reason or not the misapplication of the code (misfeasance) is typically a violation of state level law. Any code official that believes they have governmental immunity due to there status as an inspector and then enforces codes that have not been adopted is likely to have "pierced" that immunity and is subject to personnel liability. You may get away with that because of your status, but you may also end up loosing in a court case. And your employer is not required to protect you if you stepped outside of your authority.
As an example see http://courts.michigan.gov/supremecourt/Clerk/10-08/133433/133433-Opinion.pdf
The creation of Law (Administrative Code) is a legislative act, not a discretionary or ministerial act.
A Police Officer can decide whether or not to give you a ticket for speeding, but he/she can not change the law as to the speed limit, neither can a Police Officer grant you the right to speed.
If it isn't in the adopted code it is not a violation.
Applying Administrative Law outside of your authority is a similar matter. However, there are ways to approach the OSHA/EPA/ADA type laws that are not within your authority. One way is to contact the appropriate authority. If a building inspector saw a drug lab during an inspection would that inspector try to bust the lab or call the police department?
You might also let the offender know that you may be called to testify regarding the matter, such as an OSHA violation. A code official should also avoid committing an OSHA violation by acting in the same manner of disregard as a construction crew that fails to meet OSHA requirements.
This all comes with a grain of salt. As I was once terminated from a fire department for refusing to sign off on a series of fire alarm plans for schools in Northern Colorado that clearly did not meet the ADA requirements (no notification devices in classrooms). It is gradifying to see the IFC and IBC applying the same requirements for fire alarm systems as does the ADA.
mjesse
Registered User
Re: Home Depot crew
Great thread! and good post FBG.
I agree, we can only enforce the code as it is written (cite and write) But I will make "recommendations" to contractors/homeowners regarding good-better-best practices. After all, what good are years of experience if we can't share them.
Plus, just take a look at some of Tigers pics! The folks he sees need alot more help than even he can provide
mj
Great thread! and good post FBG.
I agree, we can only enforce the code as it is written (cite and write) But I will make "recommendations" to contractors/homeowners regarding good-better-best practices. After all, what good are years of experience if we can't share them.
Plus, just take a look at some of Tigers pics! The folks he sees need alot more help than even he can provide
mj
Re: Home Depot crew
tigerloose wrote;
OAR 918-098-1900
Citation Requirement Effective January 1, 2006
In addition to any other requirements set forth in statute and rule, beginning January 1, 2006, all inspectors and plans examiners certified under Division 098, OAR 918-225-0540, 918-281-0020 918-695-0400, and ORS 460.055 issuing corrective notices at construction sites or to buildings or related appurtenances during a plan review must adequately cite the applicable specialty code sections, Oregon administrative rules, or statutes whenever a re-inspection is required as a result of the inspection or plan review.
Stat. Auth.: ORS 455.720 & 455.740
Stats. Implemented: ORS 455.720 & 455.740
Hist.: BCD 16-2005(Temp), f. & cert. ef. 7-7-05 thru 12-31-05; BCD 24-2005, f. 9-30-05, cert. ef. 10-1-05
tigerloose wrote;
I don't think so!
OAR 918-098-1900
Citation Requirement Effective January 1, 2006
In addition to any other requirements set forth in statute and rule, beginning January 1, 2006, all inspectors and plans examiners certified under Division 098, OAR 918-225-0540, 918-281-0020 918-695-0400, and ORS 460.055 issuing corrective notices at construction sites or to buildings or related appurtenances during a plan review must adequately cite the applicable specialty code sections, Oregon administrative rules, or statutes whenever a re-inspection is required as a result of the inspection or plan review.
Stat. Auth.: ORS 455.720 & 455.740
Stats. Implemented: ORS 455.720 & 455.740
Hist.: BCD 16-2005(Temp), f. & cert. ef. 7-7-05 thru 12-31-05; BCD 24-2005, f. 9-30-05, cert. ef. 10-1-05
Re: Home Depot crew
JD,
Thanks, I'll start reading chapter 33 at once! Was using the common sense enforcement.
Tiger,
Have you ever been sued for any work related inspection issues while doing your job enforcing your "tiger rules", not personal issues? Just curious, trying to follow along because of the sue factors! I applude your efforts!!
JD,
Thanks, I'll start reading chapter 33 at once! Was using the common sense enforcement.
Tiger,
Have you ever been sued for any work related inspection issues while doing your job enforcing your "tiger rules", not personal issues? Just curious, trying to follow along because of the sue factors! I applude your efforts!!
Coug Dad
Platinum Member
Re: Home Depot crew
Since 29cfr1926.501(10) offers the employer several options for fall protection for roofers, including a warning line for those more than 10 feet from the roof edge combined with fall restraint for those workers within 10 feet, are you prepared to know and enforce all of the options specifed in OSHA? Requiring that all employees on the roof have harnesses is only one of the options. Should a building inspector require a roofing contractor to conform with only one of many options in OSHA? I have enough to worry about in the building and fire codes without getting into the OSHA standards for construction.
Since 29cfr1926.501(10) offers the employer several options for fall protection for roofers, including a warning line for those more than 10 feet from the roof edge combined with fall restraint for those workers within 10 feet, are you prepared to know and enforce all of the options specifed in OSHA? Requiring that all employees on the roof have harnesses is only one of the options. Should a building inspector require a roofing contractor to conform with only one of many options in OSHA? I have enough to worry about in the building and fire codes without getting into the OSHA standards for construction.
Re: Home Depot crew
If one of your co-workers fails to shut down a job because safety gear is lacking, it's a great opening for a claim of negligence on the inspector's part.
You don't find me accusing people of being nazi's.
Accusations of stupidity are another matter.
Since you have taken enforcement of worker safety as part of your responsibility, you have also placed new liability upon the public which employs you.tigerloose said:
If one of your co-workers fails to shut down a job because safety gear is lacking, it's a great opening for a claim of negligence on the inspector's part.
You don't find me accusing people of being nazi's.
Accusations of stupidity are another matter.
Frank
Registered User
Re: Home Depot crew
Enforcing things that are not in the code can and has gotten inspectors shown the door here.
Unsafe conditions can prevent an inspection--if jobsite is not safe enough for the inspector to be on it no inspection until corrected. Unplowed roads, icy sidewalks or inadequate egress==no inspection.
Enforcing things that are not in the code can and has gotten inspectors shown the door here.
Unsafe conditions can prevent an inspection--if jobsite is not safe enough for the inspector to be on it no inspection until corrected. Unplowed roads, icy sidewalks or inadequate egress==no inspection.