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Home Depot Crew

Re: Home Depot crew

What's next, Federal immigration laws
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Pretty easy to do just drive trucks with the same color and graphics as the border patrol agents and where dark green uniforms and the illegal workers will vacate the job every time you show up :p
 
Re: Home Depot crew

mtlogcabin

now you gave tigerloose a novel idea for the next inspection :)
 
Re: Home Depot crew

I had a contractor's employee approach me once (temp was in the teens and wind was about 30 mph) asking me if it was legal to require people in this country to work in such cold conditions?

I thought about it; and handed him one of my Building Officials business cards and told him that if he found such a law to please call this number and tell my boss; and, then proceeded to conducting a framing inspection.

Uncle Bob
 
Re: Home Depot crew

mtlogcabin wrote;

It could work all across the country
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they need to hire people that get off on that kind of thing.

Uncle Bob wrote;

I had a contractor's employee approach me once (temp was in the teens and wind was about 30 mph) asking me if it was legal to require people in this country to work in such cold conditions?I thought about it; and handed him one of my Building Officials business cards and told him that if he found such a law to please call this number and tell my boss; and, then proceeded to conducting a framing inspection.
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Thats funny, when I worked in Alaska, teens was a warm day. Kinda like Californians packing up the tools when it rains. :lol:
 
Re: Home Depot crew

tigerloose said:
It takes a machine to do it by the book and the same every time but alas, we are mere mortals.Those of you that are not and never have been an inspector have no worthwhile opinion on this. You don't understand what inspectors do.
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Tiger,

As a citizen of this country, and as a former citizen of Los Angeles County, I certainly have opinions about the rule of law.

As a thinking human being, I certainly have opinions about the ethical duty to discourage fellow men from unwittingly breaking their backs falling off of roofs.

As a computer programmer and a former manufacturing engineer, I certainly have opinions about what it takes "to do it by the book and the same every time".

As a software tester and a former manufacturing engineer, I have some idea of what inspectors do.

While I think you did the right thing to strongly encourage this contractor to protect himself and his workers, it is inappropriate for a government official to say that his fellow citizens "have no worthwhile opinion on" the rule of law or what government officials do.

Please take some time, and reconsider the reasoning that led you to say that.
 
Re: Home Depot crew

tiger - How about those Carnivals?

I get what you're saying, have days like that on occasion (16 years 9 months of Municipal work). Breathe deep, in through the nose, out through the mouth. (No, it really does work.) Don't let anybody try convince you it was wrong to stop that condition. Safety During Demolition & Construction ARE In the Code.
 
Re: Home Depot crew

To defend the Tiger here, the code is strangely silent in a lot of areas, many times deferring to manufacturers' instructions, to take but two examples AAMA window installation recommendations, and TCA tile installation instructions. These both are installation instructions written up by trade associations, instructions written solely to protect the manufacturers.

To take one, look at what the code says about waterproofing showers, very little if any, deferring to the TCA manual. The TCA manual had approved installation instructions for greenboard with tile glued directly on the board creating a surface barrier installation that never works, and is now withdrawn. There are now installation instructions for cement board, again surface barrier installations that don't work, and never will, they fly in the face of building science which is seldom even considered in writing codes. The TCA manual now recommends sealant in the joints between pans and bathtubs with tile over them, all this does is keep grout from cracking loose, but in the process seals water into the wall causing leakage and dryrot in the walls, and dryrot causes structural damage, supposedly one of the main reasons for building codes, so inspectors go around measuring the nail spacing in shear walls while allowing showers that are going to rot the walls out in a few years, no matter how many nails are installed in the shear walls, or how far they are placed apart.

Back in the 50s, when times were simpler and the code book was about an inch thick, the City of Piedmont had many fine old mansions, leaking showers over beautifully built and furnished rooms was common. There was an old part-time inspector there named Mr. Sanders, Mr. Sanders had his own what we now know as a Tiger Code, he required all shower walls to be marine grade plywood, he required copper or lead pans, and also required the walls and pans to be hot-mopped, no matter how hard and dangerous it was for a roofer to hot mop vertical surfaces. Mr. Sanders taught me a lot, nobody dared cross him, I learned a lot from him, and I still build showers by Mr. Sanders' Tiger Code, and my showers don't leak 50 years later.
 
Re: Home Depot crew

I honestly never expect you to stop making stuff up as you go along.

It's just too hard for some people to stop abusing their authority.
 
Re: Home Depot crew

When I saw a bunch of roofers working without protection, I told the foreman point blank that he better get those guys some safety equipment. He didn't and - I'm not making this up - next day an OSHA inspector spotted them while driving by the jobsite and swooped in did his job.

After experiencing both trench collapse and very nearly a roof fall, you can bet I look for safe jobsite conditions all the time, and am not shy about mentioning it to whomever is in charge. Haven't had to blow the whistle on anybody yet...

Job safety is everyone's concern.
 
Re: Home Depot crew [citizenship]

Tiger,

Thank you for your courteous reply.

Thank you for raising this issue. It is a very serious one, as it touches the heart of what it means to be a citizen or live in a republic.

A de facto citizen is someone who has a voice in how the government is run. Theoretically, the number of citizens can range from one (in an absolute monarchy) to most of the population (in a democracy with a low voting age and minimal requirements for voting).

While everyone has the right to their opinions, each citizen has a responsibility to have at least some "worthwhile opinions" about how the government is run. The citizenry as a whole needs to express "worthwhile opinions", so that they can wisely guide government policy.

In order for these opinions to guide government policy, it helps if government officials accept that citizens can have "worthwhile opinions". If enough conscientious government officials conclude that only other government officials have "worthwhile opinions" about how they do their jobs, we risk reducing the number of people who are de facto "citizens".

I hope you understand that other people (besides inspectors and former inspectors) can have well-founded and "worthwhile" opinions about "what inspectors do".
 
Re: Home Depot crew

Mac said:
When I saw a bunch of roofers working without protection, I told the foreman point blank that he better get those guys some safety equipment. He didn't and - I'm not making this up - next day an OSHA inspector spotted them while driving by the jobsite and swooped in did his job. After experiencing both trench collapse and very nearly a roof fall, you can bet I look for safe jobsite conditions all the time, and am not shy about mentioning it to whomever is in charge. Haven't had to blow the whistle on anybody yet...

Job safety is everyone's concern.
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Absolutely.

But an inspector (or an architect) bringing unsafe conditions to the attention of the person in charge is entirely different from his telling the contractor how they must address the conditions and halting the inspection until they follow your orders.
 
Re: Home Depot crew

On a rather large construction site, there were a number of workers of disputed skills and knowledge. They were a burr under the saddles of a few local workers. I had one of the locals come to my office and rip me a new one 'because I didn't have the cojones to report the OSHA infractions.' I told him it was not my duty to police the crews who worked on the site, but to inspect their work for code compliance.

Later in the week, the Man from OSHA showed up and took videos of the work practices. Next day the Man from OSHA showed up in my office. I asked him point blank: "Is it my responsibility to police the crews?" His answer: 'No,' says he, 'but you could report them to me. I think that's your duty.'

Based on his words, I'm not sure. What if he thinks wrong?

At issue were fall guards, barricades, and other hazards to one's safety. The workers were always hustling like busy ants, working long hours. I wonder if the locals would actually want to trade places with them? At least OSHA has a raison d'etre: SAFETY. The work slowed, slightly, and project was, reportedly, $2 Million over budget, but it was not because of OSHA.

If everyone did their jobs correctly, timely, and up to the 'high standard of the codes,' would we have any need for inspections? I've actually been told that 'you don't have to inspect my work, because I know it's done right.' I'm not a believer yet.

I don't police. I do recommend.

Merry Christmas to all, and to all a Good Night!
 
Re: Home Depot crew

If I got that phone call from that contractor complaining about what happened on the job site I would just shake my head in disbelief.First we would have a long talk about responsiblities and duties of an inspector.Then we would have a talk about how you should have handled it.Then I would let you things are going to be ok and keep up the good work.If I see a guy speeding I don't try to pull him over,but if I see a guy drunk driving I call the police and give him his license plate number.That's as far as it goes.
 
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I am not an OSHA informant. I will do my job and let OSHA do theirs.If I do not feel the site is safe for me to complete an inspection, I will inform the contractor that I will return when it is. Getting sucked into the OSHA regs as it may apply to workers is a dangerous thing. Once you start there is no clean place to stop. Hope your jurisdiction has good insurance and a great attorney. And you better take out an errors and omissions policy on yourself for when your jurisdiction walks away.
 
Re: Home Depot Crew

I believe we as code officials have some responsibility. Here are a few examples. Show up for a sewer lateral inspection. Plumbers working in a ditch 8' deep. No protection. Do you approve the inspection or not?

Next: worker repairing a man hole for building sewer connection. No safety regulations being followed. Do you inspect and approve the work?

Next: Workers welding and burning steel with out and fire watch or means of putting out the fire if one starts. Do you turn a blind eye?

Next: 3 story office building with open stair wells and elevator shafts with no protection? Do you inspect the pans and wire an walk away?

The list goes on!
 
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